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This question isn't specific to Rollup 2 but to MCE updates in general.
I've read through dozens of threads where experienced MCE users and moderators always advise users to do a clean install of MCE and all Windows updates BEFORE patching MCE with any MCE-specific updates or rollups. Apparently this is the only way of making sure MCE works as intended by MSFT.
So here's my question/s: suppose I'm a consumer, having bought an MCE machine from an OEM or a retail store. I use it for a few months, install an app or two, then happen to notice Windows Update prompting me to install a new rollup for MCE. What do I do?
> do I go ahead and let Windows do its thing?
> do I call my OEM and ask him to do it for me?
> do I take my PC back to the supplier and have them do a clean install?
If install order has a bearing on the success/failure of MCE updates, how can MSFT expect consumers with little or no tech experience to figure it all out? Surely they can't expect OEMs to run to their customers every time an update needs to be installed?
Guy,
I've been reading that stuff too with more than a little bemusement. The fact is that I upgraded mine and haven't had any problems that I haven't heard of people who did clean installs having. Yes I did have to reinstall BRP but so what... so did they! I personally agree that a clean install is better but the fact is if you keep your install relatively free of unnecessary stuff I don't think it makes a damn of difference.
This goes back to the point Arkay made in another thread, that although MCE comes bundled with Windows XP, it should be treated as a "closed system" to get the most out of it (I hope I'm not taking your message out of context Arkay). What he was basically saying is that MCE is best left to its own devices, as a system for watching and recording TV, mucic and videos, and nothing else. As soon as you start using it as a normal PC, loading and unloading multiple apps, codecs, devices etc., that's when the problems begin.
If you're a non-techie consumer, I'd advise you think of an MCE machine as a supercharged DVD/PVR/hi-fi. Yes it has Windows XP on it, but don't worry about that, and get yourself another PC if you want to run your office applications.
I'm still bemused at why MSFT bundled XP Pro with MCE if the target market is the living room where 99% of XPs functionality is useless. I'd love to see a version of MCE that runs on a ROM-based, self-contained OS that does little more than drive the system's functionality. Full-blown Windows adds unecessary complexity to what should really be a very simple, albeit powerful application.
(Of course, this won't be changing given that MCE will be bundled with some versions of Vista).
Guy,
While I see your point I would beg to differ on one point. You say that M$ bundle Windows XP with MCE while the truth is closer to being that they did the reverse. Remember that MCE is an application sitting on top of XP with a few hacks into the XP OS. Your comments in regard to loading applications in fact apply to any windows based machine. The fact is that every application you install brings you one step closer to a failure and a rebuild. It's the nature of the beast because the architecture of the OS is not protected from outside apps. This is why corporate IT departments tie down who can do what so tightly. I budget to rebuild my home PC approximately twice per year because I know I will install things that break the OS. What I can say is that those apps which I know are most problematic I personally prefer to install in a virtual PC like vmware or MS Virtual Machine. As far as MCE is concerned I have to say if it isn't related to multimedia it's unlikely to find its way onto that machine and I'm pretty selective even if it is.
I've read through dozens of threads where experienced MCE users and moderators always advise users to do a clean install of MCE and all Windows updates BEFORE patching MCE with any MCE-specific updates or rollups. Apparently this is the only way of making sure MCE works as intended by MSFT.
Okay,
I personally have been one of the people that recommend that, when rebuilding, ALL Windows Updates have been applied before you do anything at all, but that means ALL updates, and I don't recall anyone who has made this suggestion saying BEFORE MCE specific ones. If you enter Windows Updates on an MCE Box, it knows this, and it gives you the MCE updates aswell. This means that before you install any other apps (decoders, EPG's, Display Drivers, Audio Drivers, etc...) you already have Rollup2, or anything else for that matter, installed on your MCE.
Which leads into my next quote...
Quote:
Originally Posted by philzgr8
The fact is that I upgraded mine and haven't had any problems that I haven't heard of people who did clean installs having. Yes I did have to reinstall BRP but so what... so did they! I personally agree that a clean install is better but the fact is if you keep your install relatively free of unnecessary stuff I don't think it makes a damn of difference.
Who's they? I never had to re-install anything at all, and have had Zero problems with anything at all. The reason being that Rollup2 was installed on the MCE Box before I attempted any EPG (or anything else) installs. And yes, if you keep your install clean then an upgrade works fine... There are a large number of people that can attest to it. The reason I didn't bother with the upgrade is there were things on my MCE that I didn't want there (My housemate decided to spend the afternoon installing visualisation, screen savers, etc... and half of them had malware attached) so it was a good opportunity for a clean install. The reason for the suggestion of getting everything installed on a clean install, is not the you have to do a clean install, it's that if you ARE doing a clean install, ensure you do install ALL Windows Updates before installing anything 3rd party
In answer to your Question Guy... If I were a standard MCE user, and knew nothing about what was on my MCE Box, I would allow it to do critical updates and leave the Optional ones to the person who supplied it to me. No point breaking it yourself and paying someone to spend forever fixing it... If they install it, and it causes issues, they can't charge you the full amount, as they broke it...
"They" refers to those who chose for whatever reason to do a clean install in lieu of an upgrade.
Quote:
I never had to re-install anything at all, and have had Zero problems with anything at all. The reason being that Rollup2 was installed on the MCE Box before I attempted any EPG (or anything else) installs.
Your comment here seems ambiguous. If you fall into the above category and are using an EPG then you re-installed otherwise you're not using an EPG or never was. I guess we could get into a discussion about semantics but that's the way I see it. I have read posts in the past 24 hours in this forum from those confirming that EPG issues identical to those I experienced arose even following a clean install.
Quote:
And yes, if you keep your install clean then an upgrade works fine... There are a large number of people that can attest to it. The reason I didn't bother with the upgrade is there were things on my MCE that I didn't want there (My housemate decided to spend the afternoon installing visualisation, screen savers, etc... and half of them had malware attached) so it was a good opportunity for a clean install. The reason for the suggestion of getting everything installed on a clean install, is not the you have to do a clean install, it's that if you ARE doing a clean install, ensure you do install ALL Windows Updates before installing anything 3rd party
On this point we agree. As I have always said, any windows operating system is only ever a few new app installs away from a total rebuild.
On this point we agree. As I have always said, any windows operating system is only ever a few new app installs away from a total rebuild.
And on that point I would have to disagree. My primary development box (not MCE) gets apps installed an uninstalled frequently and the only time I boot it is when some Windows update requires it. It is not unsual for me to go for months without a boot.
Likewise, on my MCE machine, it is stable and I am loath to put anything new on it without much soul-searching, and trying it on another box first. But, unlike others, from what I read in here, it too goes for months without a boot (basically, I just never turn them off or even put MCE into standby very often).
And on that point I would have to disagree. My primary development box (not MCE) gets apps installed an uninstalled frequently and the only time I boot it is when some Windows update requires it. It is not unsual for me to go for months without a boot.
Cool! No law says we have to agree but clearly most corporate IT departments who know what they are doing lock down systems for precisely the reasons I state. In the IT industry it is a commonly understood shortcoming of the windows operating system but you're certainly entitled to your opinion and if it works for you then all the better!
BTW. I don't understand the reference to reboots since I thought we were talking about reinstalls!
Cool! No law says we have to agree but clearly most corporate IT departments who know what they are doing lock down systems for precisely the reasons I state.
Sure they do, but primarily, and in some cases unnecessarily, to avoid dogy driver installs (the primary reason for crashes), as well as to stop installaion of spyware/malware/keyloggers, and probably most important, to have a "supported base" of applications and devices the IT department will support to eliminate variables during a support call from a user.
Windows ain't perfect, but at least in the XP range it is pretty solid as long as the drivers work.
Sure they do, but primarily, and in some cases unnecessarily, to avoid dogy driver installs (the primary reason for crashes), as well as to stop installaion of spyware/malware/keyloggers, and probably most important, to have a "supported base" of applications and devices the IT department will support to eliminate variables during a support call from a user.
Windows ain't perfect, but at least in the XP range it is pretty solid as long as the drivers work.
the only time I boot it is when some Windows update requires it. It is not unsual for me to go for months without a boot.
Oz
At the rate M$ is rolling out critical patches how do you manage to go months with out a reboot? At work we deploy critical patches almost every month.
The reason being that Rollup2 was installed on the MCE Box before I attempted any EPG (or anything else) installs. And yes, if you keep your install clean then an upgrade works fine... There are a large number of people that can attest to it. The reason I didn't bother with the upgrade is there were things on my MCE that I didn't want there (My housemate decided to spend the afternoon installing visualisation, screen savers, etc... and half of them had malware attached) so it was a good opportunity for a clean install. The reason for the suggestion of getting everything installed on a clean install, is not the you have to do a clean install, it's that if you ARE doing a clean install, ensure you do install ALL Windows Updates before installing anything 3rd party 
