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restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Hi All
Went to my friendly local PC components shop the other day to buy an additional remote for the 2nd MCE PC I have built and was told by the proprietor that MS is no longer selling remotes separately & you have to buy it with the OS. This is apparently due to pirate use of the OS. He also said that it was able to buy the remote separately it was now coded to only work with the ID key of the OS it was intended t be sold with!!
Anyone else come across this tale? Sounds like BS to me.
Cheers....Sydmat
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents to this one.
At the moment, Microsoft only sells media centre as an OEM product. As such it must be purchased with hardware and according to 'Bill's Law', it is not transferrable to other hardware. Ie, if you change hardware you are supposed to purchase a new copy of MCE. In the past, the minimum hardware you needed to purchase at the same time as MS OEM software was a hard drive. I believe MS may have relaxed this a bit and now class a genuine MS remote as a qualifying piece of hardware.
OEM System builders can purchase the remotes seperately as a five pack, but are not allowed to sell them without the software. Likewise, they are able to purchase the software seperately, but not allowed to sell if without qualifing hardware. I don't believe a floppy drive cable is considered to be qualifying hardware .
Please don't blame the resellers for not being able to sell you a remote seperately. Their hands are tied. (No I'm not a reseller ).
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_A
but not allowed to sell if without qualifing hardware. I don't believe a floppy drive cable is considered to be qualifying hardware .
Please don't blame the resellers for not being able to sell you a remote seperately. Their hands are tied. (No I'm not a reseller ).
Scott - your right... 100% - and that is the way it should work... hoever a quick search on the web for Aussies sellers will find 1 or 2 following the letter of the law, a couple who will sell the remote to you with the purchase of ANY hardware item - ie. 1 tiny little screw, and majority of the sellers who will just sell you the remote on its own...
May not be good for Microsoft, but is good for the consumer (if your remote broke). Although I can understand from the MS point of view that this may allude to an increase of piracy...
Imagine - MS sells 100 copies of XP Media Center, yet sold 10000 remote controls... hmmm... something fishy here....
Solution - MCE should sell for $10, Remote Control sells for $150... Still does not work - because people will use other remotes and HIP or whatever... No real solution visible at present...
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Impact: Not only by name, but the force I want to use with my Media Center
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
As I understand it the OEM requirement for buying MCE and or the remote mean that you have to purchase at least 1 peice of Original Equipment. I.e. Processor, Motherboard, Hard Drive.
I have also been told by my supplier that you do not have to buy a new version when you buy new hardware if you upgrade or if you transfer the software to a differnt computer.
As a reseller I can't buy MCE or MCE remotes without buying some OE from my supplier nor can I *legally* sell it wihtout selling some OE. And according to my suppliers the remote does not count as OE. Be nice if it did.
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
As a reseller we have to buy a set of three MCE plus remotes, then to comply with Microsoft licensing should be sold with a system only. Now a "system" should really be a HDD, Motherboard, CPU, RAM (at least) but i guess that is open to how desparate they are to sell you something.
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Hey Everyone.
So does this all mean that when yr purchasing the OEM MCE software or a entire system, that you should purchase two remotes NOW if another one is required in the future ? Is this possible atleast ?
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Guys
As far as MS is concerned a new system is...
Motherboard, chip, HD, ram, powersupply and case.
Upgrade any of these alone and no probs. Upgrade motherboard or all 5 and classified as a new PC for the purposes of OEM (ie replace all 5 or MB and you are supposed to buy new OEM).
OEM can be sold with anything that is "essential to running a computer". Which includes all the above plus just about any other internal component. Even including power cords. Strangley the last ruling I saw did not include a monitor?!??!
Other OEM applications and hardware ie OEM office, mouse, keyboard or of course MCE remotes must be sold only with a full system - see definition of 5 items above.
OEM rulings kick in for the person who breaks the 3 pack (or 10 pack) seal. IF you buy the items - even as a retailer - in a single then the person who breaks the seal must apply the OEM rulings. IE your Tech pac or Synnex type distributer of OEM who sells them individually must ask for hardware to be purchased at the same time. The theory is if you want to buy a MCE remote as a retailer (1 of) then the distributer must ask for purchase of the magic 5 peices of harware at the same time. However if a retailer buys a 3 pack and then breaks the 3 pack in store then the theory is that the retailer is supposed to apply the OEM rulings.
OF course these are the rules. Of course many retailers do not follow the rules. Are the rules just? Well ..................
Sorry if this sounds like me laying down the law - not meant to sound like that just trying to explain the OEM rulings to retailers etc. Do I agree with them??? Well......... And obviously a few retailers also not only dont agree with them but also are not following them.
BTW - really enjoy the forum and I used to work for MS in the OEM area so I hope this helps clear up some of the rulings. As I said - not trying to lay down the law but this thread seemed to indicate some people were confused (and believe me there is plenty to be confused about in OEM land) so am just trying to explain (briefly????) how it works.
Hope this helps and if you have any other questions about what is and is not right in OEM land then just yell.
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Thanks for the update Mike, it all sounds pretty straight forward but unsure who is really going to follow the laws if the reseller can make an extra buck so to speak. If they are going to be out of pocket, well the Laws will kick in ........ im guessing.
So does all this mean... (in theory of course) IF i was to purchase 5 components, could I/can I purchase more than 1 remote, hence buying two on the day i pickup/order the system?
TIA
Ada///M.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbjenkins
Guys
As far as MS is concerned a new system is...
Motherboard, chip, HD, ram, powersupply and case.
Upgrade any of these alone and no probs. Upgrade motherboard or all 5 and classified as a new PC for the purposes of OEM (ie replace all 5 or MB and you are supposed to buy new OEM).
OEM can be sold with anything that is "essential to running a computer". Which includes all the above plus just about any other internal component. Even including power cords. Strangley the last ruling I saw did not include a monitor?!??!
Other OEM applications and hardware ie OEM office, mouse, keyboard or of course MCE remotes must be sold only with a full system - see definition of 5 items above.
OEM rulings kick in for the person who breaks the 3 pack (or 10 pack) seal. IF you buy the items - even as a retailer - in a single then the person who breaks the seal must apply the OEM rulings. IE your Tech pac or Synnex type distributer of OEM who sells them individually must ask for hardware to be purchased at the same time. The theory is if you want to buy a MCE remote as a retailer (1 of) then the distributer must ask for purchase of the magic 5 peices of harware at the same time. However if a retailer buys a 3 pack and then breaks the 3 pack in store then the theory is that the retailer is supposed to apply the OEM rulings.
OF course these are the rules. Of course many retailers do not follow the rules. Are the rules just? Well ..................
Sorry if this sounds like me laying down the law - not meant to sound like that just trying to explain the OEM rulings to retailers etc. Do I agree with them??? Well......... And obviously a few retailers also not only dont agree with them but also are not following them.
BTW - really enjoy the forum and I used to work for MS in the OEM area so I hope this helps clear up some of the rulings. As I said - not trying to lay down the law but this thread seemed to indicate some people were confused (and believe me there is plenty to be confused about in OEM land) so am just trying to explain (briefly????) how it works.
Hope this helps and if you have any other questions about what is and is not right in OEM land then just yell.
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
the OEM laws etc, are very grey...
Microsoft really need to document them and make them avaliable for public view (if they have, someone please link it for me )
until recently, i worked at a retail store...when we first got MCE, we were told by our MS rep that we had to sell MCE OEM with a NEW SYSTEM...not RAM, not a hard drive, not a CPU, not a Motherboard, but a WHOLE SYSTEM...which, IMO is bull...
if that was true, im building my own MCE system...if i can't buy it separately, im gonna download it, cause im not getting some store to build the PC for me...
apparently, its because MS are worried that if people do it themselves, they won't get the full experiance and they blame it on the software...when in actual fact, it very easilly could've been a piece of hardware that was incompatible with MCE...
MS do have a list of compatible hardware, but i don't think its avaliable to the public, only OEM system builders...again, cause they don't want you to build it yourself...
anyway..the place i used to work at still sells them with any peice of hardware
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Well now there is the rub of course.
Rules is rules and who follows them is of course another question. It is not exactly difficult to buy a 3 pack of remotes (as a retailer - unopened and therefore no questions from suppliers) and then crack the 3 pack and sell individually. Obviously what some people on ebay, retailers etc are doing. People will break rules if they think they can get away with it and not get caught.
As for buying mulitple remotes at initial purchase. Not 100% sure. I would suggest it would be dodgy as it would be the same as buying 2 lots of OEM office for one PC. Obviously at least one copy will not be used on the purchased PC and therefore be in contravention of OEM rules. I would be pretty sure the same would apply with MCE remotes.
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
pantonious
Yes MS did want it to go with new PCs. One reason was to make sure that only compatible hardware was used (hence the list available to system builders). And yes MS knew that if every tom dick and fred tried to shoehorn MCE into a P2 it was going to cause grief.
If you want to build a machine yourself you can still do so 100% legally.
Simply purchase the 5 items that MS deem to be a new system at the time of purchase of OEM MCE and remote and you will have all the fun of building it yourself and still be 100% legal.
In actual fact legally you can purchase the OEM with 1 piece of hardware. Its the remotes that fall into the different OEM catagory. They can only be purchased with a whole system - work that one out!!!!!
I am not sure of a public link to OEM rulings. As you correctly said that info is on a MS website dedicated to system builders. Theory being that only system builders need to know the rules and enforce them.
Hope this all helps........
Anyhow - nuff of boring legal stuff - let me go look at some more cool stuff I can use MCE with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
Hang on a second.......
Has MS ever had to take legal action against someone for breaching this? I doubt it!
Its there to make sure that the customer ends up with a system that works......
Unless its a conspiracy between bill and the computer bloke down the road.....
I just think its just an **** covering excercise. If you bought it and it didnt work with your system then its your fault. MS warned you!
After all MS doesnt sell the hardware....does it?
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restrictions on buying MS MCE remotes separately from the MCE os?
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