Windows 7 EIT EPG update mechanism?

[bigdonk]

Hi,
Im a noob to windows 7, having just installed windows 7 RTM ultimate x64 onto a spare NTFS partition.

vista ultimate x32 SP1 ( no TV pack ) is still my main OS for the HTPC, whilst I evaluate windows 7.

Have everything working nicely, but i'm trying to figure out what are the Windows 7 mechanisms that update the EIT EPG ?

Ie, is it you must have eshell.exe running ? and does live tv need to be running in order to have the EIT EPG automatically updated ? on what period does windows 7 automatically update EIT EPG ? and are there any administrative controls to tweak it's EIT EPG update behaviour ?

Thanks,

[Astrotoy7]

The EIT is transmitted by broadcasters and does not require any interference by the end user. Different channels update at different times, ABC only shows 'now and next', which will likely change when this channel takes its new form later in the year(as a kids channel essentially)

If you already knew all that and just wanted EIT details, I havent come across anything myself, but member Bryce would be a good person to ask about the nuts and bolts of it. He's written plugins to enable EIT in vista without requiring TVpack update.

Astro

[bigdonk]

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

The EIT is transmitted by broadcasters and does not require any interference by the end user. Different channels update at different times, ABC only shows 'now and next', which will likely change when this channel takes its new form later in the year(as a kids channel essentially)
Astro

I was refereeing to windows 7 media centre updating it's EPG it uses, as sourced from EIT.

I am not asking how often the broadcasters update the EIT EPG contents, a different but also interesting question. I suspect the networks will update the EPG contents inconsistently anyway., especially ch nine.

BTW, ABC in Melbourne have more than now and next.

Originally Posted by Astrotoy7

If you already knew all that and just wanted EIT details, I havent come across anything myself, but member Bryce would be a good person to ask about the nuts and bolts of it. He's written plugins to enable EIT in vista without requiring TVpack update.

Astro

I'm talking about windows 7 RTM, not vista.

[aanda6]

Could be wrong, but I remember reading something that the EIT data will actually upgrade everytime you select a new channel, when I did use it befere BSEPG I know I had to actually select some channels and watch for about 10 seconds before they got guide info.

[bigdonk]

Originally Posted by aanda6

Could be wrong, but I remember reading something that the EIT data will actually upgrade everytime you select a new channel, when I did use it befere BSEPG I know I had to actually select some channels and watch for about 10 seconds before they got guide info.

would you happen to have the source reference of information on this ?

[DDH]

bigdonk, I'm investigating this myself. The reason, it doesn't appear to be working for ABC, no guide data at all, but guide data on the TV via EIT. I've got no guide data for 9 and 9HD, but OK for 99 (Go!), which makes sense because I can't see any EIT data for 9 or 9HD on the TV EIT based guide either, so I'm assuming they are not transmitting it.

I've checked all the channel links, etc in the Windows 7 guide and can't as yet figure out why the ABC stuff is not updating.

Overall, my plan is to have my "slave" Win 7 MCEs use EIT (ie no maintenance) and my core MCE server with all the scheduled recordings use the XMLTV (once its Windows 7'ed) since I'm happy to keep donating to EPGStream and the guide source at OZTvio.

[aanda6]

I will search for where I read that info. I can say my set top box in the back room updates the EIT when you change to that channel which is very annoting if you don't watch a channel often.

[TheRob]

My understanding of the process is that in Media Center data is scanned for a particular channel when you are watching that channel, but Media Center also scans all enabled channels in the background when a tuner is spare. If you only have a single tuner, you need to channel surf to get all the guide data, or leave Media Center on but not use the tuner for a while. If you have two or more tuners, then the EIT will be harvested in the background using spare tuners as they are available.

[mikehayton]

That's basically right.

In DVB there's two types of EIT tables being transmitted that media center can extract data from.

EIT [p/f] (present/following aka now/next) - just has limited details on the current and next programs is transmitted frequently.

EIT [sched] (schedule) - up to 14 days split up into smaller packets and sent in a carousel fashion in the transmission. So it can take a minute of being tuned to the frequency to see all the EIT [sched] and get all the data. These have more data, than EIT p/f but are still pretty limited in the scope. I.e. no concept of episode title vrs title. Or release year, or actor list. Basically just a title and a description field. A single EIT [sched] table is about 4 hours worth.

Note: some broadcasters dont transmit any EIT tables. Some only transmit the EIT p/f ones.



The data is loaded into MC in Win7 in two ways:

1. opportunistic scanning - if its encountered when you've tuned to the frequency, then its loaded in.

2. periodic scanning - by default at 2am (or is it 3am?). It will tune to all the channels and try and update its EPG data. If tuner is in use, it will back off. It will tune in the most recently used to least recently used order of the channels - this is because with 2000 odd channels on some DVB-S setups, there isnt sufficient time to tune to all channels. So there's some time out (3 hours I think) that after it will stop the periodic scan.

For periodic scanning you can change the time that kicks off on by setting a download window of time in tasks->settings->general->automatic download options. This page allows you to set a download window (min 6 hours) that mcupdate will schedule downloads within. Also it will do the periodic scan within this window. The idea is to allow the user to specify a time that's ok for the machine to wake up from sleep.

Hope this helps,

[AdrianW]

Originally Posted by mikehayton

For periodic scanning you can change the time that kicks off on by setting a download window of time in tasks->settings->general->automatic download options. This page allows you to set a download window (min 6 hours) that mcupdate will schedule downloads within. Also it will do the periodic scan within this window. The idea is to allow the user to specify a time that's ok for the machine to wake up from sleep.

As I virtually never watch live shows would it work OK if the download window was set to our usual viewing times (eg. 8pm-12am)? But, considering you've said the minimum window is 6 hours, I could set 8pm-4am and being in Australia (with very few DVB-T channels) could I expect the whole thing to finish relatively quickly? (i.e. before I send the box to sleep at aroung 11:30pm).

[bigdonk]

Originally Posted by mikehayton

2. periodic scanning - by default at 2am (or is it 3am?). It will tune to all the channels and try and update its EPG data. If tuner is in use, it will back off. It will tune in the most recently used to least recently used order of the channels - this is because with 2000 odd channels on some DVB-S setups, there isnt sufficient time to tune to all channels. So there's some time out (3 hours I think) that after it will stop the periodic scan.

For periodic scanning you can change the time that kicks off on by setting a download window of time in tasks->settings->general->automatic download options. This page allows you to set a download window (min 6 hours) that mcupdate will schedule downloads within. Also it will do the periodic scan within this window. The idea is to allow the user to specify a time that's ok for the machine to wake up from sleep.

Hope this helps,

So if ehshell.exe ( windows 7 media centre ) is not running, but MS task scheduler has mcupdate regularly scheduled, and there is at least one available DVB-t tuner during the time mcupdate is run, periodic scanning takes place still ? Are the any specific arguments that need to be passed to mcupdate, to update EIT EPG during periodic scanning ?

cheers,

[DDH]

Well thanks to Mike I've got something to try when I get home later in the week.

I figure I'll tune into the ABC again and let it run to see if I get now / next programs in the guide.

I'll also reenable the download window (since I didn't think I'd need it) and see if I get a guide again. Being one who doesn't waatch live TV much I think this is my way to keep a valid guide.