Hauppauge HVR-2200 Issues & Signal Strength

[jd2005]

Hi everyone,
so have been reading all those great threads about the HVR-2200 so i went out today and brought an upgrade to me VMC. (new quad core, 4gb ram etc etc) and 2x HVR-2200 cards. Replacing my old Dvico Fusion Plus cards.

So i have two issues (i can get both cards to work perfectly together) with the following exceptions..

I find all 36 channels on the gold coast, can watch everyone one of them except Channel 10 and 10 HD. (can watch southern cross ten though). It finds it, shows it in the channel list but when you go to watch it says that no signal exists.??

The other thing, is does anyone know how to check the signal strength on these cards? surely there is a utility available for them?

I have done all the usual things recommended in the threads, HWCClear etc and replacing/changing drivers etc? Same result every time (even dropping to a single tunner card.)?

Anyone with any ideas?
Regards
Justin

[bmn]

I'm having the exact same problem with this card. All channels work for me, except for TENHD.

I'm also not getting any audio on ANY of the HD channels. Do i need to install a codec to get these working?

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bmn

I'm also not getting any audio on ANY of the HD channels. Do i need to install a codec to get these working?

What are you playing back the sound through? HD carries encoded surround sound channels which, if enabled, may not be compatible with the thing you're playing it through. Go into the sound drivers and make sure that you only enable the formats that your playback device supports. SD channels don't suffer the same problem because they only have a stereo audio stream.

BTW, new drivers have just been released for the HVR2200. Don't know if it will fix any of your issues, but worth a go.

[andczo]

Originally Posted by bmn

I'm having the exact same problem with this card. All channels work for me, except for TENHD.

I'm also not getting any audio on ANY of the HD channels. Do i need to install a codec to get these working?

When you set up the guide, do you get a preview box with the channel being played in the bottom left hand corner?
Are you using 1 or 12 as HDTEN?
there is a util around that comes out with all DNTV cards... tinymon... or something like that. With this util you enter the freq of the channel and it will report back to you on SNR and Db.

[bmn]

Originally Posted by TheRob

What are you playing back the sound through? HD carries encoded surround sound channels which, if enabled, may not be compatible with the thing you're playing it through. Go into the sound drivers and make sure that you only enable the formats that your playback device supports. SD channels don't suffer the same problem because they only have a stereo audio stream.

BTW, new drivers have just been released for the HVR2200. Don't know if it will fix any of your issues, but worth a go.

You'll have to excuse my noobness, but I'm not 100% sure what you mean. In vista I go to my sound properties from the control panel, then select the "Playback" tab, then pick "Realtek Digital Output - Realtek HD Audio" (as it is the only one with the green tick on it.) Then i click properties. Under Supported formats i have tried clicking DTS audio, DD and Microsoft WMA Pro Audio and clicking the test button - but I don't hear anything on any of them. Is this a problem? :\

As for how it is connected. I currently have a HDMI cable running from my 8500GT to my HDTV. And from the motherboard , i have plugged the spdf out to the video cards spdif in. I read somewhere that I might need to run the spdif outpud from the back of the machine as the audio input so that its converted to analogue, and hance no encoding?

[bmn]

Ok, i unchecked all the audio options I mentioned, and installed the new HVR2200 drivers. I now have audio on 9HD and 7HD, but still "No signal" the following channels:
TENHD (channels 1 and 12, 725MHz).
Standard Def TEN (channel 10, 725MHz)
ANY Prime stations (channel 60 -> 63, 788MHz)

It just seems like its those two frequencies that I can't view. All others work fine! And I'm assuming its not out of the cards freq range as I can tune into 9HD (which is 809MHz)


Any help would be greatly appreciated

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bmn

Under Supported formats i have tried clicking DTS audio, DD and Microsoft WMA Pro Audio and clicking the test button - but I don't hear anything on any of them. Is this a problem? :\

Yes. Your TV cannot decode DTS, etc. The way this works is that when the HD broadcast is pulled apart, the system sends the highest quality audio stream that it thinks your amp/receiver can handle. If the device this is sent to - in your case the TV - doesn't have the hardware to decode this audio stream - most TVs don't - then you get no sound. You need to match the supported audio formats in your driver with the audio formats that your TV or receiver CAN actually decode. In your case it will just be stereo, so all other formats should be disabled.

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bmn

Ok, i unchecked all the audio options I mentioned, and installed the new HVR2200 drivers. I now have audio on 9HD and 7HD, but still "No signal" the following channels:
TENHD (channels 1 and 12, 725MHz).
Standard Def TEN (channel 10, 725MHz)
ANY Prime stations (channel 60 -> 63, 788MHz)

It just seems like its those two frequencies that I can't view. All others work fine! And I'm assuming its not out of the cards freq range as I can tune into 9HD (which is 809MHz)


Any help would be greatly appreciated

I see that you are on the Gold Coast. There have been a number of reports of people there having 10 show up in the intial scan, but not being able to view the station (they get no picture or audio). Is this what's happening to you?

If so, it could be caused by Vista not correctly setting the frequency offset that 10 is broadcasting on - it thinks it's broadcasting on the band's centre frequency rather than centre +/- offset frequency. You may need to contact NewMagic and see if they have any ideas at all.

If 10 and Prime are not even being picked up when you scan for channels, then you may just have a signal problem - check you antenna and leads.

[bmn]

The Rob, yes that is what I am experiencing. It comes up in the initial scan, but then I get the "No signal" message from MCE when I try to watch the channel.

Thanks for that. Its not a signal issue (I don't think) as I can watch both Prime and TEN/TENHD channels fine when i run the antennae cable straight into the tv. I guess it must just be the way vista is handling the frequency. Is there a way to override this via the registry to point it at the correct frequency?

I noticed you have a HVR2200 - can you tell me which frequency tenhd is on in your channel settings to see if its the same MHz?

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bmn

Thanks for that. Its not a signal issue (I don't think) as I can watch both Prime and TEN/TENHD channels fine when i run the antennae cable straight into the tv. I guess it must just be the way vista is handling the frequency. Is there a way to override this via the registry to point it at the correct frequency?

I noticed you have a HVR2200 - can you tell me which frequency tenhd is on in your channel settings to see if its the same MHz?

I don't think you can easily override the frequency in VMC. I believe it's a driver level thing. There are reports about certain registry changes that can be hacked, but these seem to be very tuner card specific. Do a search over on The Green Button for "frequency offset" and you might turn up something. If I were you, though, I'd contact NewMagic and see if they have any workarounds.

I am in Syndey and receive 10 on the VHF band at 219.5MHz. You are receiving 10 via a UHF translated transmission. The not sure where the figure of 725MHz comes from, but the actual frequency will probably be something like 725.625MHz. It's that pesky .625 that's the problem. If you ring the local Ch 10 techs you should be able to find out.

Edit: Further on this, here's a quote from a document on the ACMA website:

"The centre frequency of the digital television channel is shown in the service listing in this book. It should be noted that for implementation reasons, broadcasters may choose to operate with a +/- 125 kHz offset from the nominal channel centre frequency."

There is a document called "Television by area serviced" that you can download that lists the actual frequencies used. It has TVQ on the Gold Coast at 725.625MHz.

My understanding is that tuners should in general tune first to the centre frequency (xxxx.5) and then to each of the offsets (xxxx.625 and xxxx.375) and then lock on to the frequency that produces the lowest Bit Error Rate (BER). Now the broadcast frequency is actually embedded as part of a digital TV broadcast. I believe that Vista actually reads this value and uses it as the preferred tuning frequency. My theory is that Ch 10 on the Gold Coast is actually a) broadcasting erroneously the centre frequency rather than the offset frequency, or b) not broadcasting the frequency at all causing Vista to default to the centre frequency.

In either case this is what I think is happening.

During an initial scan, Vista finds the channel because it actually scans all three possible frequencies to detect a signal. Once the signal is detected Vista reads the broadcast frequency from the stream and stores it - if it's not present it stores the default centre frequency for that band. During playback the tuner goes directly to the stored frequency and locks on to that. If this is actually the wrong frequency, the recieved signal level would be lower and may drop below the 'digital cliff' resulting in a 'No Signal' error.

To fix the problem you would need to either change what Vista 'thought' the frequency was. This is probably a registry setting, but I've got no idea how or where it's stored. The alternative is to change the tuner driver so that if it goes to the designated frequency and doesn't find a quality signal, it then scans all three of the possible frequencies in the band and locks on to the best one.

That's my assessment of the situation, anyway.

[bmn]

I read the 725MHz from the Channel settings in MCE. I think i found it under tasks -> settings -> tv -> set up channels (or something, not in front of it at the moment). I might give them a call this afternoon to see what they say about the frequency.

If it is in a .625 or something, why can't my card actually tune into it? (I'm a bit noob at this stuff, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance). Is it because the card only locks onto whole number frequencies? or ignores offsets?

EDIT:

Just read this -> http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/post/55778.aspx

[TheRob]

Originally Posted by bmn

If it is in a .625 or something, why can't my card actually tune into it? (I'm a bit noob at this stuff, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance). Is it because the card only locks onto whole number frequencies? or ignores offsets?

No. The 725MHz reported is just rounded off. AFAIK no channels in Australia broadcast on a 'whole number' of MHz - all will end in either .5, .625 or .375. It's just that Vista is rounding the display to a 'whole number'.

The reason your card is not tuning to the frequency properly is (I speculate) that it 'thinks' that Ch10 is on 725.5MHz because that's where Vista is telling it to tune to. When it does this, however, the signal is not good enough to display, so Vista gives you a 'No Signal' error. It's a bit like tuning in to a radio slightly off frequency - you get a lot of static.

I've edited my post above to explain it a bit more.