EASY Instructions for Adding Extra Tuners to VMC Update

[philzgr8]

I think it might be nice to update this thread with some information which was kindly provided by logifuse as the process for most users these days is far simpler if one uses the HP MCE Tuner Config tool which can be downloaded from here: http://www.xpmediacentre.com.au/comm...do=file&id=181

Unfortunately that thread is now closed so this one has been made a sticky as a resource for all.

The point being that this tool deals automatically with tuner priority settings and enables up to 4 tuners with very little effort. It is also far less confusing than the MCE Tuner Extender App. The process with this tool means that you can set up Vista with all 4 tuners installed, set up your guide and then simply enable the 2 additional tuners by giving them names and checking the enabled box using the tool.

Update: Thanks to GlenR and Logifuse for providing the following additional information:

As it turns out, while the above method will work in most circumstances there can still be some instances when MCE decides that you don't have enough tuners. This is because not all of the required settings are being changed automatically and is fully explained by posts later in this thread from Logifuse and GlenR.

In order to ensure that under all circumstances maximum availability of all tuners is achieved it is still necessary to edit the registry. The Tuner settings can be found under the following key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\Curr entVersion\Media Centre\Service\Video\Tuners\{Key????}\UserSettings
(Note that the {Key????} value will vary from system to system and tuner to tuner. Refer screenshots in next post)
and Logifuse has kindly posted images in the next post to illustrate. The following tables (reproduced courtesy of GlenR) show the correct logic for the settings in 3 and 4 tuner setups.

3 Tuner Config
-------------------------Tuner 1----Tuner 2----Tuner 3
Record Order----------2------------1-----------0
Record Pref------------0------------0xffffffff----0xffffffff
Watch Order-----------0------------1-----------2
Watch Pref ------------0xffffffff-----0-----------0

4 Tuner Config
-------------------------Tuner 1----Tuner 2----Tuner 3----Tuner 4
Record Order----------3------------2-----------1-----------0
Record Pref------------0------------0xffffffff----0xffffffff---0xffffffff
Watch Order-----------0------------1-----------2-----------3
Watch Pref ------------0xffffffff-----0-----------0-----------0

I hope this thread makes this formerly onerous job a bit easier for all.
Cheers,

Phil

[logifuse]

Actually, it's good that you've started this thread as I've discovered a new variable that I've been meaning to post about.

There are additional registry entries needed to avoid potential no signal in live TV when a background recording finishes problems.

Background:
I've discovered that the only RecordOrder/WatchOrder entries that MCE/VMC actually adheres to are the '0' ones. When a recording is due, it will select the RecordOrder=0 tuner, but it will pick a tuner for the second, third, fourth, etc. concurrent recordings randomly. So, effectively it could use the WatchOrder=0 tuner as the 2nd recording tuner. When it does & then that tuner's recording ends, it throws MCE in to confusion if you are watching live TV because it attempts to switch your live TV to that tuner. That often results in a sudden no signal message, & if you're actually using the time shift buffer - good night nurse.

The reason it does this is understandable - it's designed to be a 2 tuner system so logically, the WatchOrder=0 tuner would/could be the next recording tuner.

Solution:
I've tested this as much as I could, but I haven't had 3 concurrent recordings with Live TV on the go much, so I'm not 100% sure (about 98.6749% sure).

The other key registry entries are the WatchPreferred/RecordPreferred entries. Previously it was thought that these were simply duplicating the WatchOrder/RecordOrder=0 entries, but what they actually seem to refer to is, "what should the primary job for this specific tuner be?"

So RecordOrder=0 also has RecordPreferred=0xffffffff, & WatchOrder=0 has WatchPreferred=0xffffffff, but what about the other tuners? I have configured my other 2 tuners (RecordOrder=1 & RecordOrder=2) to both have RecordPreferred=0xffffffff.






Therefore, I have 3 tuners which have a primary task of recording & 1 tuner which has the primary task of live TV.

When set that way, I haven't had a single recording try & use the Live TV tuner (except if a 4th concurrent recording starts).

The only possible problem with this approach I can see is if you use extenders for live TV. If that's the case, then you might need to set RecordOrder=2 to WatchPreferred=0xffffffff & RecordPreferred=0. You have more of a chance of seeing the no signal problem, but less of a chance than you had before adding the extra WatchPreferred/RecordPreferred entries.

I'll try & put up some screenshots of my registry settings so that it is clearer.

Justin

[philzgr8]

Great work (as usual) Justin. I think pictures will speak more than a thousand words in this case since I got so confused by all the recordorder, watchpreferred, watchorder, recordpreferred references that I need a shrink before I attempt it!

P.S. I've PM'ed Mike asking for this to be a sticky!

P.P.S. If we get that I would suggest updating your existing post rather than adding a new one so it stays near the top of the list.

[logifuse]

Added screenshots.

[GlenR]

Justin, I had a wierd one the other night that may be related to your post.

I have 3 tuners and often have all three recording happily away no problems. The other night I had one scheduled recording happening and SWMBO was watching a bit of live TV when she decided she wanted to record it to watch later. I hit record and got an error message saying I could only record one channel at a time.

I then set up a manual record to start in one minute and behold it recorded.

Would this be related to this watch / preferred thing of which you speak?

(Although i must confess I'll need to read you post through again a bit slower to get my head around it.)

[logifuse]

Originally Posted by GlenR

Justin, I had a wierd one the other night that may be related to your post.

I have 3 tuners and often have all three recording happily away no problems. The other night I had one scheduled recording happening and SWMBO was watching a bit of live TV when she decided she wanted to record it to watch later. I hit record and got an error message saying I could only record one channel at a time.

I then set up a manual record to start in one minute and behold it recorded.

Would this be related to this watch / preferred thing of which you speak?

(Although i must confess I'll need to read you post through again a bit slower to get my head around it.)

Yes, I saw behaviour like that prior to making my extra entries, so it's almost certainly related.

Apologies that it's so wordy - I hate to leave anything out.

Basically, follow the screenshots & add or subtract a tuner from the middle two depending on your number of tuners. Obviously if you have 3 tuners, then you won't have a WatchOrder/RecordOrder=3 entry anywhere (remembering that it uses the numbering scheme starting at '0' & not '1').

Justin

[GlenR]

OK, had a re-read and I think I understand what's happening. Your config is like this:

-------------------------Tuner 1----Tuner 2----Tuner 3----Tuner 4
Record Order----------3------------2-----------1-----------0
Record Pref------------0------------ffffffff------ffffffff------ffffffff
Watch Order-----------0------------1-----------2-----------3
Watch Pref ------------ffffffff-------0-----------0-----------0

So when you record it will pick Tuner 4 first and then either 2 or 3 in any order, but it will leave Tuner 1 until last as it has a Record pref of 0.

When you watch live TV it will always grab Tuner 1 (unless you have 4 records going).

Right?

My default settings are:

-------------------------Tuner 1----Tuner 2----Tuner 3
Record Order----------1------------0-----------0
Record Pref------------0------------ffffffff------ffffffff
Watch Order-----------0------------0-----------1
Watch Pref ------------ffffffff------ffffffff-------0


That gives me two prefered and primary record tuners (2 & 3) and two preferred and primary watch tuners (1 and 2) making Tuner 2 the tuner of chioce for both watch and record.

I would assume then that if I am recording and it has picked Tuner 3, and I am watching on tuner 2, when I pick record it tries to move to a preferred record tuner and cant find one - Tuner 3 already recording and tuner 2 occupied by the live TV and there is the conflict and the "You can only record one" message. Would that be it?

What I need is :

-------------------------Tuner 1----Tuner 2----Tuner 3
Record Order----------2------------1-----------0
Record Pref------------0------------ffffffff------ffffffff
Watch Order-----------0------------1-----------2
Watch Pref ------------ffffffff-------0-----------0

and that would remove any contention for live and reording on Tuner 2. Correct?

Off to get a Nurofen now - my head hurts...

[philzgr8]

Good one Glen and sincere thanks. I was dreading sitting down and trying to deceipher all those hyroglyphics.

P.S. Once Justin confirms your findings I might go back and update the first post with the recommended settings in simple tables for 3 and 4 tuner setups.

[logifuse]

Wow Glen,

Yes, it looks like you have cracked the davinci code.

I think the overlapping settings on Tuner 2 was your issue. Your suggested settings look spot on to me.

Phil, that would be a good idea. If you want to use my screenshots, they're in the gallery (or you can just right click on each one & copy image location). If you do, I'll edit them out of my post (saving bandwidth).

Justin

[philzgr8]

Originally Posted by logifuse

Wow Glen,

Yes, it looks like you have cracked the davinci code.

I think the overlapping settings on Tuner 2 wer your issue. Your suggested settings look spot on to me.

Phil, that would be a good idea. If you want to use my screenshots, they're in the gallery (or you can just right click on each one & copy image location). If you do, I'll edit them out of my post (saving bandwidth).

Justin

Thanks Justin, I think I'll leave the images where they are since they are close enough to the top and frankly I've never quite worked out how to work with images anyway. I think I'll just grab Glen's tables and dump them into my first post with some explanation. That should make it quite readable.
Cheers,

Phil

[mackrory]

Sorry - but I need to figure out what this solves.

I have a dual tuner (Tiny USB) setup.

Can I use the above to solve the issue where --> (in VMC) if you record two programs that are back to back TV shows on the same TV Channel (using IceTV) you get the end of the 1st program as the start of the second. i.e. they are not recorded as separate programs - even though the two tuners are free.

For me - if I record back to back programs on the same TV channel I would prefer that VMC records each program separately.

Thanks,
Col.

[Nudge]

Originally Posted by mackrory

Sorry - but I need to figure out what this solves.

I have a dual tuner (Tiny USB) setup.

Can I use the above to solve the issue where --> (in VMC) if you record two programs that are back to back TV shows on the same TV Channel (using IceTV) you get the end of the 1st program as the start of the second. i.e. they are not recorded as separate programs - even though the two tuners are free.

For me - if I record back to back programs on the same TV channel I would prefer that VMC records each program separately.

Thanks,
Col.

Col,

Having 2+ tuners can solve your problem of overlapping back to back shows. If you only have 2 tuners and want the 2 shows to record as separate files, you need to at least alter the hard padding end time of the 1st show, in the guide - select the show - go into record settings - change finish time to 5,10,15mins etc (hard padding).

If you only have soft padding settings on (+ or -4mins max), then show 1 stops at scheduled time and show 2 starts at scheduled time, back to back.

Gets tricky if you then have 2 back to back on one channel and then a 3rd at the same time on another channel. To get all three you need to leave the hard padding as default, the back to back shows get recorded with tuner 1 and the 3rd show with tuner 2. The shows would then overlap as your problem above.

Later,

Nudge