So is MythTV running on Ubuntu worthwhile as a alternative to Vista

[jollster101]

Hi all (and especially Arkay )

Whilst I do think that Media Center within Vista is a whole heap better than the offering that was in XP, I still find it somewhat frustrating in the idiosyncrasies, random crashes amd problems it throws up along its path.

I saw a post of late that made me think about a viable alternative and MythTV seems to be a good one. One major issue though is the lack of Unix knowledge that I have but I believe that Ubuntu helps substantially to bridge that.

There are a huge amount of apps that are available and constantly being developed for Vista using MCML and many of them are fantastic. MyTV, MC Organiser (before it merged into Movie Collector), EmuCenter are all apps I use with regularity plus a few more beside.

Basically I use my machine for watching TV (2 x PCI-E DigitalNow Hybrid S2 Tuners installed) with the missus recording a fair bit of the crap that is aired. On top of that I have 60GB of albums stored on their as MP3 and as already mentioned, I use Emucenter for retro-remeniscing about the old school with MAME. Throw in Movie Collector which is basically My Movies but with more bells and whistles and that is pretty much what I use my media center for. Movie Collector is for my avi's, divx / xvid etc and I have a heap of DVD's that are in Movie Collector which get watched from time to time.

So what can MythTV and whatever packages that can be added in do for me that Vista can't?

What are the things that make it fantastic and make your mates drool when they see it?

What are the things that make you tear your hair out due to the stupidity or sheer frustration of it?

I want to try and get a clear picture of the capabilities of it from those that either have, still do, or may look to try it. Remember that my Unix skills are pretty much nil and so I need to take that into account when it comes to deciding whether I would give it a go at setting up and configuring or running away crying.

[arkay]

Hey Jollster101,

I'm gonna give as best I can a balanced and concise breakdown of what it really means for a Linux newb to go to Myth. Give me some time.. It's too late now to start what will end up a very very long post. But I hope it'll be very informative when I get the chance to write it

Cheers,

Arkay.

[jollster101]

Originally Posted by arkay

Hey Jollster101,

I'm gonna give as best I can a balanced and concise breakdown of what it really means for a Linux newb to go to Myth.

You may need to write it in crayon for me and using pictures..........

I start by referrring to Unix and Linux is the first difference....hehehehe

[GuiGuy]

Originally Posted by jollster101

Hi all (and especially Arkay )

I want to try and get a clear picture of the capabilities of it from those that either have, still do, or may look to try it. Remember that my Unix skills are pretty much nil and so I need to take that into account when it comes to deciding whether I would give it a go at setting up and configuring or running away crying.

I read your post last night, but decided to think before answering.

First off, long ago I had a little Unix grounding, which is now mostly forgotten. Off and on over the years I dabbled with Linux. In the last couple of years I got serious about it and since early this year the network and PCs in my house and SOHO are all Ubuntu and Mythbuntu.

The bad stuff first

When something goes wrong with Linux, it can be described as "Frustrating one day, infuriating the next".

Practical help, in the sense that a Windows user might expect, is terribly hard to get. Ask a question the wrong way in a linux forum, you will be put down.

Personally I find wikis impossible to search or read, yet linux distros make extensive use of them. Further, much like Windows, mostly you will be told what you already know, not what you need to know.

MythTV doesn't do some of things you might take for granted with MCE/ VISTA. For example, setting up standby and timed restart from standby is a right royal PITA. I still haven't figured it.

Wireless networking doesn't work nearly as well on Linux as it does on Windows. It can be difficult to set up as well. I finished up selling my wireless stuff and now have a mix of hardwired and ethernet over the electrical supply circuit.

Setting up SPDIF has proved a nightmare for some, although for me it was a simple case of "check your settings"

On the aesthetic side, you don't get the eye candy of vista.

And no matter what happens, sooner or later you will need to deal with the linux command line. You'll recognise that everything you use it for could easily be programmed into an intuitive GUI, but the geeks insist that repeated typing of obfuscated cryptography is the way forward.

In a nutshell, if you get serious about linux be prepared to re-educate yourself. BTW, getting initial help from Arkay, Lester or perhaps even me in this forum might be less stressful.


The good stuff

I have tried three distros, MythDora, Knoppix, and MythBuntu. MythDora and MythBuntu worked out of the box for me, first time. Knoopix didn't so I tossed it.

I settled in MythBuntu only because the other PCs in the house where on Ubuntu. Mythdora would be a fine choice as well, IMO.

MythTV Linux, or Mythbuntu, is rock-solid on the right hardware. I read up, experimented and then settled on a configuration for the backend (see sig line). If I were to give one piece of advice above all others, it's make a recommended hardware selection and keep away from bleeding edge hardware. BTW, PCIe tuner cards will not work (yet). The early Dvico Fusion 4 (dual tuner) can be made to go, the later ones AFAIK will not work.

Use a RAID array or a huge HDD (I see 1T is now sub $225 at the fairs). TV recordings are not stored in an intuitive way. They are difficult to access from outside of the frontend.

If you're confused about 'backend', it's the server. The frontend is the bit the user sees for watching telly & videos, recording (via the backend), listening to music, archiving (ripping) etc.. You only need one backend, but can have many front ends on the network. We don't see much of our daughter anymore since I installed a frontend on her bedroom PC.

EPG: Ice is a doddle to set up. I used it when I started. However, the Shepherd is the bees knees when you're ready, IMO. I use it now.

WAF: In my house the WAF has gone up with MythBuntu. The reason is twofold, I think

1. The girls can watch TV on any computer on the network
2. The frontend interface is very procedural and consequently makes more sense when coming from base zero.

Summarizing, once set up, you'll find it worth the effort but I recommend setting up a test box and experimenting before tossing Vista WMC out.

NB: For help I have found the MythBuntu forums excellent and the MythTV mailing list terse but usefull. The MythTV wiki is tedious but useful as well. Of course, for sheer encouragement this forum has been good. And for determination to make the move to MythTV nothing has been more motivating than Vista itself (Are you listening, Microsoft?).

Cheers

[Wraak]

I read your post last night, but decided to think before answering.

No need to think. Answer is straight forward. Yes.

When something goes wrong with Linux, it can be described as "Frustrating one day, infuriating the next".

Add: very rewarding

Practical help, in the sense that a Windows user might expect, is terribly hard to get. Ask a question the wrong way in a linux forum, you will be put down.

No need to ask anything... all the info is already there. If it is not there, it´s probably not solved.

MythTV doesn't do some of things you might take for granted with MCE/ VISTA. For example, setting up standby and timed restart from standby is a right royal PITA. I still haven't figured it.

Without Arkay´s help (aka The HIbernator), hibernation and standby would still be an issue with Winslows.

Wireless networking doesn't work nearly as well on Linux as it does on Windows. It can be difficult to set up as well. I finished up selling my wireless stuff and now have a mix of hardwired and ethernet over the electrical supply circuit.

They are working on it but I like a wired net better.

On the aesthetic side, you don't get the eye candy of vista.

In some area´s like the GUI appearance and desktop (Compiz) you get much more choice wit Myth than with Win, on the other side, Music, video´s and movies is terrible in Myth.

And no matter what happens, sooner or later you will need to deal with the linux command line.

No doubt.

In a nutshell, if you get serious about linux be prepared to re-educate yourself. BTW, getting initial help from Arkay, Lester or perhaps even me in this forum might be less stressful.

Agree.

I have tried three distros, MythDora, Knoppix, and MythBuntu. MythDora and MythBuntu worked out of the box for me, first time. Knoopix didn't so I tossed it.

Toss everything except Mythbuntu. Do not even touch Freevo.

MythTV Linux, or Mythbuntu, is rock-solid on the right hardware.

Yeah but a pain with video drivers.

If you're confused about 'backend', it's the server. The frontend is the bit the user sees for watching telly & videos, recording (via the backend), listening to music, archiving (ripping) etc.. You only need one backend, but can have many front ends on the network.

Backend-frontend=very simple. It is almost the same in Win. When you schedule a tv recording in Win and you close the MCE Gui, the recording will still find place (backend)
Win however will not let you set up standalone frontends on other machines.

EPG: Ice is a doddle to set up. I used it when I started. However, the Shepherd is the bees knees when you're ready, IMO. I use it now.

I do not know the meaning of the word ¨doddle¨ but I found Ice very easy to set up.

Summarizing, once set up, you'll find it worth the effort but I recommend setting up a test box and experimenting before tossing Vista WMC out.

Or you do like I did, use a 18 fold boot with Xp and Vista and bla bla with Mythbuntu on /sda13 and you have the choice without recking anything.

Conclusion:

I am still running MCE 2005 as my primary recording software and VMCE secondary, Mythbuntu just has become my tertiary utensil.

You will probably stuff up something the first time around if you want to dual boot with Vista or MCE (although it is very simple). Like Fredz said: practice on a cheapo box or make Images (my advice).

Honestly, I love Linux but I also like Windows. Linux gives you the feeling that you achieved something because you are in control of the machine.
Windows is a more complete package but it controls you.

WARNING: LINUX IS ADDICTIVE.

[arkay]

Great posts guys. To the OP, I am still intending to write this up.

Can I ask that we not get onto the Windows vs Linux bandwagon too much. I want to compare the two and say what doing a Myth install is like and I will do that by comparison but we shouldn't get into a Myth is better than x because of y followed by a Linux sucks because of z conversation. They both have their advantages/disadvantages and I want to try to capture it all.

Cheers,

Arkay.

[GuiGuy]

Originally Posted by arkay

Can I ask that we not get onto the Windows vs Linux bandwagon too much.

You can ask, but you may not get what you want

Seriously though, for me the reason to find an alternative to WMC was Vista. I fell for its hype and was disappointed. Given I actually paid for the damn thing I feel entitled to bitch about it. Vista, that is.

I'm over it now.

Wraak made observations about the quality or reliability of video drivers. I've had no hassles. Again, I do think that hardware choices are more critical than what we're used to with Windows.

Cheers

[GuiGuy]

Originally Posted by Wraak

I do not know the meaning of the word ¨doddle¨ but I found Ice very easy to set up.

Doddle

[Wraak]

Wraak made observations about the quality or reliability of video drivers

Somewhere you are right. If I had noticed in time that somehow Xorg-fglrx mistakenly got installed in my Mythtv setup it would have probably only taken me a few hours to get the whole thing working.

Doddle

You are spending too much time in the Geek forums, look at the language you start using.

Arkay

When can we expect the Mythtv equivalent of the Hibernator?

[arkay]

Originally Posted by GuiGuy

You can ask, but you may not get what you want

OK. Have at it then

I can always start another thread with my thoughts on it all.

When can we expect the Mythtv equivalent of the Hibernator?

It's not really necessary though I did write something similar recently.. Didn't get it finished 100% though.

I have my Myth backend shutting down/waking for recordings etc automatically. That functionality is included in Myth, though you do need to set it up which isn't trivial.

Cheers,

Arkay.