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Something which has become very apparent when developing MCML is that for any addin you are going to code, something which would hugely speed up the development process would be a "template" to start with.
I see it as being a default.mcml with a predefined panel based layout, along with a xmlns referenced styles.mcml containing UI elements such as buttons, repeaters, etc.
Does anyone know if something like this already exists, or be interested in contributing to developing one?
Ok thanks. I will try to elaborate a little for what I have in mind...
coming from a web design perspective, I see styles.mcml being analogous to a .css file, defining styles for all common elements like heading1, heading2, body text, textbox, etc which contain properties for font, size, colour, spacing, etc. Also common controls such as buttons would be predefined, including changes for events like mouseover, onclick etc. I especially like the ones Niall demonstrates here
The layout are defined by panels for example a menu panel anchored to the left side of the screen, and main content anchored to side of the menu panel etc. Hopefully something which can handle 4:3 or 16:9 well.
This would allow developers to concentrate on providing content without having to reinvent layouts every time, with a polished UI.
Another advantage to defining styles in a seperate file, is the ability to completely change the way a plugin looks by supplying a different styles.mcml file.
Ok thanks. I will try to elaborate a little for what I have in mind...
coming from a web design perspective, I see styles.mcml being analogous to a .css file, defining styles for all common elements like heading1, heading2, body text, textbox, etc which contain properties for font, size, colour, spacing, etc. Also common controls such as buttons would be predefined, including changes for events like mouseover, onclick etc. I especially like the ones Niall demonstrates here
The layout are defined by panels for example a menu panel anchored to the left side of the screen, and main content anchored to side of the menu panel etc. Hopefully something which can handle 4:3 or 16:9 well.
This would allow developers to concentrate on providing content without having to reinvent layouts every time, with a polished UI.
Another advantage to defining styles in a seperate file, is the ability to completely change the way a plugin looks by supplying a different styles.mcml file.
Hi Benneh,
This would be a great idea to have something like this...
A lot of the new MC UI is actually done with much less graphics then MCE2005 (ie plain text is used instead of buttons) - but its really more about the way it moves (and how it makes use of shadows to do subtle 3d effects). I think the button samples i provided are almost the only graphics used (apart from the list hightlights and the search box). If we want something to mimick the UI - the colors are also very important (I spent a bit of time getting this as close as I could) - as any variations and the contrasts fall off (making it hard to read on a tv)..
I've been meaning to get some better samples together showing some of the other bits of how Big Screen Contacts works (which I think is pretty close to what they have - but the 3d part could be done a lot better and it could be better polished). I've been working on something new.. (something i think a lot of people will get very excited about).. but its taking up all my blogging + forum time these past few days..
Also just a hint - I tend to use the 'Form' layout quite a lot in conjunction with the Scroller (so you can just specify margins around things - which works great for both 16:9 and 4:3)..
cheers
Niall
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Big Screen Blog | Microsoft MVP 2007 : "Windows - Media Center" | Windows Media Center Community Dev Expert
Ok, it is no secret ehres.dll contains all we need to replicate the MCE look and feel very accurately (and apps like MCEcustomizer already manipulate this), but MS might approve of those elements being extracted and directly used in plugins.
It would be great if we could reference the actual dll resrouces directly from my MCML.
neither of these work, and after some investigating, it seems we are intentionally being locked out of using these by MCMLverifier. (And what a useful error it throws, MCMLverifier has stopped working, )
I don't understand why MS intentionally make it hard for plugins to copy the look and feel of the rest of MCE.
Very relevant to this discussion, Charlie Owen from Microsoft made comments regarding what is being discussed here in this blog post.
His stance (and maybe Microsoft, hard to tell as his blog has a disclaimer stating his blog is his opinion and not that of Microsoft) is that every MCML application should invent it's own look and feel, "variety is the spice of life" as he put it. I disagree, having a different UI experience for every app is just plain confusing, and most importantly, bad for the WAF.
There are some good comments made there, and it led him to make a second post on the issue. His stance is if you want to access undocumented resources like those in ehres to "Feel free to use those. Seriously. Party on. Go crazy. Knock yourself out." He also raises a very valid point that as those are not specifically public that Microsoft may change them at any point in the future without notice, and that may break any apps using them.
Because of this, I am still unsure which direction to take this. I still feel there is a need for a templated MCML UI, however utilising the ehres may not be the way.
Yep - owen and microsoft are certainly not wanting us to play with their internals - but for what reason?? what real reason......
I would not be at all surprised that things change at some point in the future specifically to piff people off that have used the ehress.dll - just out of spite - we told you so!
And what is this vnext crap ? eh?
So plugins may not work when m$ upgrade to the next big thing... Well excuse me - what just happened - a lot of mce2005 plugins no longer work with Vista. And some of the older internal M$ demos for mce2005 no longer work - are they going to release new ones - nope!
Its a fact of life when things get upgraded, items need rework for them to break.
Is it selfishness or arogance of M$ not to understand that developers sometimes would like to have plugins with similar UI... and what are we talking about - some backgrounds, some buttons and things like that - nothing major...
I could think of nothing worse than on one screen the buttons use a helvetica font and are small buttons, and some gothic script on large buttons on another screen - it defeats the look and feel of the whole experience.
Sure there may be a specific standalone custom app that deserves to have a pink flashing background and buttons in the shape of stars... hmmm... maybe not. But if there is ever the need, then that app can go for it - knock itself out in creating their own look and feel... But when it comes to writing a contacts screen / messenger screen / bittorrent screen / enhancements to the 'i' button, my videos, my tv series, or anything else - I'd prefer a common set of functionality thank you.
- We are never going to convince Owen on this, we will never convince M$ on this - they just do not understand what people want, they dont understand good UI design, they dont understand how it could make the job easier and let people get on being creative in the applications arena instead of fiddling with RGB values and button pixel sizes.
- Even I can see the benefits in it all, and you use it if you want, and if you dont like it, your still free to do your own thing to make your ugly application stand out
Argghhhhhh.
/rant off
Maybe we just create some templates, some png's, put them out in the public domain - and ask anyone to improve upon them and share the goods around....
- Corr its enough to start a blog on - why M$ do not listen ?>
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Impact: Not only by name, but the force I want to use with my Media Center
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More playing around to be done, but it's looking promising so far.
