Solid State Disks - Get rid of your Hard Disks?

[Aldo]

Hi all,

I've just been reading about the new 80GB MLC SSD Intel have released and it looks like the future of storage: fast, silent, consumes less power and cool . The main problem at the moment is that it that they are extremely expensive. However prices are falling.

I just wish to pass on a word of warning on certain models. I read in this article in Anandtech considerable problems were uncovered with MLC disks using JMicron controllers (OCZ Core SSDs): http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...oc.aspx?i=3403. Something to be avoided it seems.

Lincoln

[Auldar]

I thought solid state drives had a finite re-write number..

If you're constantly writing over the same storage area with recordings, don't they stop working pretty quickly?

I suppose you could argue that a hard disk doesn't last forever either, but it's not due to writing over the same blocks, it's just as the disk ages it's more prone to failures..

[Aldo]

The article goes into durability:

" Thus Intel will guarantee that you can write 100GB of data to one of its MLC SSDs every day, for the next five years, and your data will remain intact. The drives only ship with a 3 year warranty but I suspect that there'd be some recourse if you could prove that Intel's 100GB/day promise was false."

These drives don't fail catastrophically either. The data is written into individual blocks and as they wear out, the drive can detect this and can provide warning of when the drive is going to fail. While the current SSD does not have this feature implemented, the article says Intel is working on the software that lets 'you query two SMART attributes on the drive: one telling you how close you are to the rated cycling limit, and one telling you when you've run out of reallocating blocks'.

Lincoln

[ox]

Also their storage capacity is much lower than conventional disks and I understand that they're actually slower to write to.

[Aldo]

Originally Posted by ox

Also their storage capacity is much lower than conventional disks and I understand that they're actually slower to write to.

Capacity wise they are smaller presently, but they are getting bigger. A 160GB from Intel is coming out soon. They are physically small too- 2.5" format. In the article they compare the Intel SSD with conventional HDDs Western Digital Green drive and the Velociraptor, a notebook HDD and several other SSDs. The Intel write speed (70MB/s) was not a problem and the read speed (230MB/s) was amazing. They halved the load times of many applications. The author thought that using these disks would be a better performance boost than upgrading to a Nehalem processor.

The price is the real problem ($595 US r.r.p for a 80GB disk - hardly cheap); but it looks like in a few years these 'disks' might overtake HDDs as a storage media.

[bobafett_h]

Most SSDs are advertised with a rewrite number of about one million times as is with most flash based storage.

From most reviews of SSD drives I have read, there are only a few recent ones that actually beat fast HDDs in terms of consistent read and write speed. SSDs are much faster for burst read and writes, but for copying big files, they aren't quite up to speed yet. Especially not when compared to some of the high end 1TB HDDs with 32MB cache or the WD VelociRaptors. The price is definitely getting better, but still a long way to go before they start being used in the mainstream market.

[BladeRoNNeR]

I guess this is like comparing early HDD technology to what drives are now capable of. Its a big difference! SSD have been around for a while now, but the price keeps them from being mainstream. Speeds from what I see are still good with SSD but honestly expect more before I would fork out for a unit.

It is a shame when you run such fast hardware but have to wait for access to your information. Personally I am looking at changing to 64bit Vista and installing 8GB of RAM and running the whole thing in RAM (ie no swap files or anything). Have heard this is really quick .. not sure if anyone has experience with this yet tho...

I do see it as the future coming up, but how soon?? 1yr .. 5yrs .. who knows.

How long till you see a 1TB SSD??

I think hybrid systems would exist for a long time to come, running SSD for the OS and software with HDDs still being used for 10yrs or so for the mass storage market.

Just my thoughts....

[S13dg3]

Originally Posted by BladeRoNNeR

...

It is a shame when you run such fast hardware but have to wait for access to your information. Personally I am looking at changing to 64bit Vista and installing 8GB of RAM and running the whole thing in RAM (ie no swap files or anything). Have heard this is really quick .. not sure if anyone has experience with this yet tho...

I do see it as the future coming up, but how soon?? 1yr .. 5yrs .. who knows.

How long till you see a 1TB SSD??

I think hybrid systems would exist for a long time to come, running SSD for the OS and software with HDDs still being used for 10yrs or so for the mass storage market.

Just my thoughts....

Make sure ALL your devices have proper 64 bit driver support. I wrestled Vista 64 on my computer thinking it would benefit. Managed to get most of the system working under V64 stock. I lost my install disk and rego codes and lucky for me had an MSDN subscription to get Vista SP1 64bit. What a drama getting it to work with the devices.

Nvidia's drivers were the biggest cause for concern, as their 64 bit drivers would BSOD left, right, and centre. Playing around with manufacturer-specific drivers and even Omega drivers (which were not really the best for an HTPC setup) didn't help at all. Soon as I installed, it would crash.

The Beta drivers for my Sondigo Callisto audio adaptor worked fine as did support for most other bits and pieces in my HTPC box.

It would be nice to see the development of SSD's press ahead. I would expect with the densities being offered for normal memory nowadays I think we'll hit the magnetic byte-to-density barrier sooner than we would with solid state. The cost already is hitting a sweet spot for specific capacities. Afriend of mine picked up a Sony VAIO ultra portable with 50-ish GB SSD for about 1/2 the normal retail for that unit on a runout from harvey's, which pretty much is an indication that there's probably new models and/or higher capacities on the way.

[pantonious]

Originally Posted by Auldar

I thought solid state drives had a finite re-write number..

If you're constantly writing over the same storage area with recordings, don't they stop working pretty quickly?

I suppose you could argue that a hard disk doesn't last forever either, but it's not due to writing over the same blocks, it's just as the disk ages it's more prone to failures..

The SSDs are smarter then that...it will spead the writes over the entire length of the drive. The only problem you will face is if you constantly have your drive @ 95% capacity...cause it only has 5% of the drive to write over.

Originally Posted by Aldo

They are physically small too- 2.5"

Wats wrong with that??? means you can use the same drive for a netebook, desktop and server. Yes, you need extra mounts, but the WD Velociraptor is a 2.5" drive aswell, it just comes with the converter...

The only problem you'll face is when you want to use the drive in a 3.5" caddy (why wouldn't you use a 2.5"??), NAS Storage (but why would you be using expensive/fast SSDs in a NAS and not 1/1.5TB HDDS!) and some very rare and expensive cases that have the SATA Data/Power connectors intergrated into the chassis.

[Auldar]

Originally Posted by pantonious

The SSDs are smarter then that...it will spead the writes over the entire length of the drive. The only problem you will face is if you constantly have your drive @ 95% capacity...cause it only has 5% of the drive to write over.

Watching Live TV for a while will overwrite the whole drive... That was the point..

[pantonious]

better that then it writing on the same 2GB (or watever) and killing it much much quicker!

[Aldo]

Originally Posted by pantonious

The SSDs are smarter then that...it will spead the writes over the entire length of the drive. The only problem you will face is if you constantly have your drive @ 95% capacity...cause it only has 5% of the drive to write over.



Wats wrong with that??? means you can use the same drive for a netebook, desktop and server. Yes, you need extra mounts, but the WD Velociraptor is a 2.5" drive aswell, it just comes with the converter...

I meant that for the SSDs to be 2.5" in size is a good thing - the smaller the better.

I also agree with BladeRoNNeR that hybrid systems will be the initial way to go: with your OS on the SSD to speed everything up and all your media recording on HDDs.

Lincoln

[Auldar]

Originally Posted by pantonious

better that then it writing on the same 2GB (or watever) and killing it much much quicker!

True, but it's just not viable for a Media Center IMHO.. It will wear out too quickly..