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Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner
Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner
Published by vbap
3rd June 2006
Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

An Installation Guide by vbap

Contents

1 Existing Setup
1.1 Remove DVICO Lite (software)
1.2 Remove DVICO Lite (Hardware)
2 New Setup
2.1 Install NovaT 500 (Hardware)
2.2 Install NovaT 500 (Software)
2.3 Configure the new NovaT 500 in MCE2005
3 Testing
3.1 Confirm New Tuner Working
3.2 More than 2 Tuners Hack
3.3 Test 4 tuners in MCE
4 Post Implementation Review

1 Existing Setup

Existing setup was 1 x DVICO Lite and 1 x NovaT 500. The NovaT replaced a DVICO Dual. Although installed, the DVICO Lite was not setup as a third tuner, since I was intending to get a second NovaT 500 anyway.

Nonetheless, the antenna setup is a single outlet from wall to a Kingray amplified splitter (1 in, 2 out). 1 split goes to the NovaT 500, the other to the DVICO Lite. The passthrough on the DVICO Lite goes to the analogue tuner in the Dell W1900 LCD TV.

The dual NovaT 500 setup had been working well for a week since installing it. Fast channel changes are a huge plus. Occasionally, spouse reports that ABC comes up with "Digital Audio Service" blue screen, which is fixed by a channel-change-and-change-back workaround. I suspect it is a signal strength issue, since analogue reception takes a big hit in this setup (channel 10 is bad, and even no splits, there are subtle distortions in the analogue picture). The roof antenna is not located in optimal position, and there is a split of the cable inside the roof to another (unused) TV outlet in the study.

I will definitely have the reception & cabling attended to within the next few weeks.

1.1 Remove DVICO Lite (software)

First step was to run the DVICO driver uninstall utility to clean out Windows of all the DVICO stuff. I could have gone back to a clean image, but this one is very nearly clean anyway (based on a clean MCE2005 rollup 2 image taken 1 week ago, with the only difference being the installation & configuration of tuners). Reboot was suggested, so I obliged. To make sure it was gone, I deleted the Tuner from the MCE Tuners registry:


Figure 1: Delete the DVICO? Sure!

1.2 Remove DVICO Lite (Hardware)

It was then system shutdown time. The case was opened and the DVICO Lite removed.


Figure 2: The new card (apologies for poor photographic skills)


Figure 3: Same as my existing NovaT 500

2 New Setup

2.1 Install NovaT 500 (Hardware)

While the system was open, I put in the second NovaT 500 in the same slot previously occupied by the DVICO Lite. I had read about IRQ sharing issues, so hoped that using same slot as previous tuner would mitigate this. Here are some snaps of the NovaT 500 hardware.


Figure 4: I assume this is the VIA USB Controller chip








Figure 5: Twin "Silicon" DVB-T Tuners








Figure 6: Twins - congratulations!

In the photo above, the blue card is the AGP graphics ( a lowly FX5200, but gets the job done for SD channels!). The card at the front is an internal Parallel Port I/O card to feed the VFD. I ended up removing this card, since VFD is not very useful, and wanted to remove the PCI card to save some IRQs...

The motherboard is an Intel PERL865, with 5 PCI slots + 1 AGP slot:
PCI Slot 1: Empty (was Parallel Port I/O card)
PCI Slot 2: 2nd NovaT 500
PCI Slot 3: Empty
PCI Slot 4: 1st NovaT 500, installed a week ago
PCI Slot 5: Empty
AGP Slot: Gigabyte FX5200

2.2 Install NovaT 500 (Software)

After assembling the machine and switching it on, windows detected the new hardware. Since I already had a NovaT 500 installed, it used the same drivers and finished the installation without requiring any input from me. MUCH better than the DVICO install process....

Out of interest, I decided to check the MCE registry before configuring the new tuner.


Figure 7: Tuner "0" of 2nd NovaT 500


Notice that in the UserSettings for 7BF30..., there are no entries at all and there is no TuneRequest, indicating the tuner has not yet been configured for use with MCE.


Figure 8: 7BF30... is new Tuner, 8619D... is existing

2.3 Configure the new NovaT 500 in MCE2005

Enough poking in the registry for now - I wanted to test that the new tuner worked and could receive all channels before setting up all 4 tuners to work in unison. Easiest way to do this is run the MCE "Set Up Your TV Signal" wizard. From the MCE menu, go to Settings / TV / Set Up Your TV
Signal:


Figure 9: Set Up Your TV Signal


Figure 10: Aussie...Aussie...Aussie


Figure 11: Deselect the Existing Tuners


Figure 12: Select the new Tuners!


Figure 13: Finish at this point

Note, I did not have to "Set Up Guide Listings", since these are already working perfectly fine, thankyou very much (to Monster for BRP 3.0 and Impact for FreeXMLTV 4.0)



Figure 14: Apologies for the content...

3 Testing

3.1 Confirm New Tuner Working

At this point, I tested the new Tuner to make sure all channels could be received, and that could record one channel and watch another. And, indeed it could:

At this point, I did notice some stutter on SBS, and occasionally ABC2. I still believe this is reception related (more on this later!)

3.2 More than 2 Tuners Hack

OK, time to take the plunge and do one of the many hack options to get more than 2 tuners working in MCE2005. My favoured technique is "Method 1" from Peter Rosser's blog here: http://blogs.msdn.com/peterrosser/ar...echTalk_1.aspx

This method uses the registry to enable all the tuners for MCE, then set the recording and watching preferences for each tuner, such that the preferred recording tuner is last in the watch order, and the preferred watching tuner is last in the record order. My set up is:




Figure 15: Firing on all 4 cylinders!

3.3 Test 4 tuners in MCE

OK, the moment of truth. Reboot and test that:

All channels can be viewed in LiveTV [Check!]
4 different channels can be recorded at once [Check!!]

Again, there was stuttering on SBS during this test, but all other channels were fine, including ABC2, which had the football on. After
rebooting again, then just watching SBS with nothing else on seemed to work fine. A lot of channel flicking, just to make sure.

4 Post Implementation Review

I started this installation at around 10:30pm, after the family had gone to bed. I finished at around 12:30am. 2 hours is not bad, considering the screen dumps and photos were done as well. (The creen dumps were done via UltraVNC from the study desktop PC over a wireless LAN, so apologies for quality!).

Out of interest, I quickly checked CPU usage during the 4 simultaneous recordings:


Figure 16: 4xSD Recordings with Pentium 1.8GHz CPU

Performance is not too bad, especially for a dedicated HTPC machine. Overall, there is nothing pressing for an upgrade in the short term (provided we're happy with SD channels only).

This morning, I decided to run ScanChannelsBDA to confirm my suspicion about reception quality. Results are as follows:



These numbers pretty much confirm a signal strength issue. Would be happier if they were all above 80... Still, it's not horrible and would probably be acceptable for the next few weeks until I get the antenna / cabling upgraded.

This guide is also available as a PDF download here
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  #1 (permalink)  
By Mike on 3rd June 2006, 11:55 AM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Great guide - well done!

Many thanks for your contribution vbap!!

Mike
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  #2 (permalink)  
By simbot82 on 3rd June 2006, 12:01 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Wonderful guide, I have been looking at this tuner myself.
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  #3 (permalink)  
By djhampson on 3rd June 2006, 12:05 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Nice work mate! Very interesting...

Mike - Did you know that it is not possible to give rep points to vbap for this guide?
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  #4 (permalink)  
By Mike on 3rd June 2006, 12:16 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by djhampson
Mike - Did you know that it is not possible to give rep points to vbap for this guide?
Mmm - no I didn't

I'll look into it, but in the meantime either add to another of his posts (this one will do ) or we wait until he posts here.

Thanks for the heads up.

UPDATE - Added some code so rep points can now be added top right
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  #5 (permalink)  
By vbap on 3rd June 2006, 11:49 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Thanks for the comments everyone, it was a bit of fun knocking this one up, even if it was late at night and done in a bit of a rush!

There are 2 main conclusions I got out of replacing the DVICOs with the NovaTs:
  1. Tuner/driver sensitivities will make a big difference. With DVICO, I had the No Signal issue (3 tuners), whereas with the NovaT (4 tuners), I just get stuttering on ABC/SBS with very occasional Digital Audio Service message. The NovaT tuners just seem to latch on to a signal (even weak one) very quickly, and the drivers seems to report this back to MCE just as quick, resulting in quicker channel changes.
  2. Signal Strength is so important when debugging digital TV issues. You just have to be certain to eliminate it first, before worrying about anything like decoders, CPU, graphics cards etc.
I would like to see a plug-in for MCE that measures signal strength, and it needs to be logged on a regular basis. That way, users can quickly rule out signl/reception issues well before getting into the hassles of troubleshooting system/software.

Now, the TV guy couldn't make it today, so I have to wait a few mroe days before havng my reception checked out. Once done, I will update with new ScanChannelsBDA report!
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  #6 (permalink)  
By benneh on 4th June 2006, 12:49 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

great work on this mate!
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  #7 (permalink)  
By SilentButcher on 13th June 2006, 03:26 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by vbap
Thanks for the comments everyone, it was a bit of fun knocking this one up, even if it was late at night and done in a bit of a rush!

There are 2 main conclusions I got out of replacing the DVICOs with the NovaTs:
  1. Tuner/driver sensitivities will make a big difference. With DVICO, I had the No Signal issue (3 tuners), whereas with the NovaT (4 tuners), I just get stuttering on ABC/SBS with very occasional Digital Audio Service message. The NovaT tuners just seem to latch on to a signal (even weak one) very quickly, and the drivers seems to report this back to MCE just as quick, resulting in quicker channel changes.
  2. Signal Strength is so important when debugging digital TV issues. You just have to be certain to eliminate it first, before worrying about anything like decoders, CPU, graphics cards etc.
I would like to see a plug-in for MCE that measures signal strength, and it needs to be logged on a regular basis. That way, users can quickly rule out signl/reception issues well before getting into the hassles of troubleshooting system/software.

Now, the TV guy couldn't make it today, so I have to wait a few mroe days before havng my reception checked out. Once done, I will update with new ScanChannelsBDA report!

Intresting comments Vbap, But as far as the signal stregth problem goes, I have had the same problem with SBS. SBS was fine on my single Dvico card, and now I have the Hauppauge I get exacty the same problem as you do, occasional stutter. Would love to hear your conclusions on the matter. SBS is important for the world cup atm. SBS SD isnt bad but HD is pretty crappy.
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  #8 (permalink)  
By vbap on 13th June 2006, 03:39 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentButcher
Intresting comments Vbap, But as far as the signal stregth problem goes, I have had the same problem with SBS. SBS was fine on my single Dvico card, and now I have the Hauppauge I get exacty the same problem as you do, occasional stutter. Would love to hear your conclusions on the matter. SBS is important for the world cup atm. SBS SD isnt bad but HD is pretty crappy.
Hi SilentButcher,
DOn't forget that the NovaT 500 is a dual tuner, which means your signal is being split into two, which weakens the signal strength received. Depending on how good your signal strength was before (ie with the single tuner), a single split may be enough to put you into borderline territory.
Give ScanChannelsBDA a go. If you still have the DVICO, and some time on your hands, run ScanChannelsBDA with just the DVICO then with just the NovaT 500. You'll soon see whether signal strength is/was issue. If only I had time and a plethora of tuners on hand, I'd be happy to run a signal strength comparison...!

My reception issues will be dealt with in 1st week of July.
Our workaround (and I'm surprised that the WAF is OK with this!) is to do a channel change-and-back (sometimes a couple of times). Or some percussive maintenance on the antenna...
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  #9 (permalink)  
By SilentButcher on 13th June 2006, 04:14 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

OK, thanks for the response, but I do actually suspect the wire traces on the PCB of the Hauppauge card are not as good and some signal strength is been lost there. I gave my dvico away to a friend so comparing is not an option (not to mention I dont want the dvico anywhere near my system anymore)

Previously with the dvico the signal was been split between 2 other HD tuners and a VRC, 4 devices all up, no problem, now with the hauppage and everything else disconnected the SBS problem remains( 2 devices ), I will give scanBDA a go and let you know
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  #10 (permalink)  
By vbap on 28th June 2006, 10:12 AM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Update on my signal strength:
All existing cabling replaced with quad shield RG6, cable split in roof to another outlet was removed (don't use it), wall plate connector changed to "F-Type", fly lead changed to RG6 also (with adapter on the end for the tuner cards),

[drum roll]
signal strength now worse than before, and cannot get channel 9 (which used to be the strongest channel!). Even analogue reception direct into the TV is crappier
[/drum roll]

I am only using one of the NovaT 500's for now, since I need the other fly lead plugged into the TV so we can watch the rare show that interests us on channel 9. The other channels getting average of 50 signal strength on ScanChannelsBDA.

TV guy is coming back on Thursday arvo to double-check all connections, but this is not good! Mind you, I know the roof antenna is poorly located and we will move it to better position, but really, how can replacing with better qualtiy cable and removing unused splits lead to poorer signal!
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  #11 (permalink)  
By vbap on 4th August 2006, 01:14 PM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

I realised I haven't updated this "blog" in a while, although regulars would glean where things are at from my other posts related to the NovaT 500

To follow-on from my last post, the crappier reception post-RG6 upgrade was due to poor workmanship from the sparky When he returned to check, he noticed a poor connection in the cabling and fixed it straight away. Things were back to normal, but the ScanCHannelsBDA readings were only marhginally better than before.

I subsequently got a got local antenna installer (sourced from the DTV forums!) to replace the antenna with a quality digital-only one and relocate the antenna for best reception.
After his handiwork, I no loger needed the powered splitter / booster from the wall outlet, and he made up some small f-connector-to-PAL cables to connect from the passive F-splitter to the card.

His readings at the wall-plate for my signal were:
Chl ChBER Signal(dbUV)
06 (Seven) 1.0^4 70
08 (Nine) 3.1^6 68
11 (TEN) 5.0^6 67
12 (ABC) 1.1^6 67
29 (SBS) 00^8 70

He said these readings should be sufficient for 4 passive splits and Channel Seven (if any) may give the odd reception glitch due to the BER reading (1.0^4 is still fine, but at the lower end of the acceptable scale!).

When I re-tested, I was still getting stuttering on ABC and SBS. The Antenna Installer was quick to blame the HTPC, and unfortunately I knew he was right..

Knowing that these issues with ABC & SBS were only introduced when I installed the NovaT 500, I tried the DVICO Lite that I still had, and no problems! So, at this point, I decided to send a support mail to the distributors (newmagic) since Hauppauge don't have offices in Oz and the card was not yet released in the UK.

I'll leave it at that for now, and maybe conclude this blog in a spearate post (hopefully sometime soon and with a happy ending ).

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  #12 (permalink)  
By Lemon on 7th August 2006, 09:42 AM
Re: Adding a Second NOVA-T 500 MCE Dual Digital Tuner

Hi
I have run 2xHVR1100 for a year now and just recently added a 1300 for Foxtel. Since adding the extra 1300, I now have stutter on SBS SD (every 10 to 20 seconds there is a noticeable glitch on the screen). 10HD, 9HD, 7SD abcSD all look ok.

I risk the wrath of the family trying to resolve it (I am the only SBS watcher in the house). My suspicion is that it's a Hauppauge driver issue, as I have had the same problems in the past when trying to use newer drivers. (I am using 2.106.23151.0 at the moment)

Let us know if you resolve your SBS issue.

edit: just checked, and my working build used 2.107.23208 . Somehow I went back a driver when I added the 3rd card. Will need to summon the courage to try the upgrade, but it normally results in having to re-tune everything...
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