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I've been playing with codename 'Fiji' for a few days now and I will confirm it uses the EIT data instream to populate the guide. No mucking about with third party apps. needed. The guide is now included FREE in Media Center.
From a users POV this changes the dynamics of the entire IceTV vs. Nine issue where ABC, Seven, Nine and Ten ARE providing usable guide data for FREE vs. IceTV that is charging for data that pretty much gives you the same thing.
The EIT data is NOT under the jurisdiction of NineMSN or HWW as it comes from the stations individually. Both NineMSN and HWW only have rights to the media release of the guide data as in third party websites, print media etc etc.
Even if IceTV secure the rights from the official aggregators of programming data it will still be a case of will a user want to pay for something that is already available for free and usable.
Don't get me wrong IceTV has had its place in probably being intrumental in the progression of the EPG scene in Australia BUT in the cold hard light of the EIT and 'fiji' are we willing to continue backing IceTV just for the sake of historical significance?
Sure IceTV may still have its place in STBs that cannot use the EIT data but even then how long before firmware updates address even these boxes?
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That which is common to the greatest number has the least care bestowed upon it.
Aristotle
As far as I can tell, all DVB-T STBs support EIT. The issue is with the quality of it being so poor from the broadcasters, the ICE solution is still way better:
1. SBS is only now and next, they have indicated maybe the end of this year they will go to 7days, but the SBS person who was asked the question thought they were being asked about their video program guide channel, so it remains to be seen I think that EIT 7 days is at the end of the year (I got this convo from over on the dtvforum).
2. Most broadcasters do not send seven days, it is more like somewhere between 3 and 7.
3. Most broadcasters only use the EIT standard event description, which has a limit of approx 249 chars for length of description + length of title (so if it is a long title, it doesn't leave much room for the description). If they use EIT extended event description instead, then they can get 15x249=3735 chars of description. This extended event descriptor also supports categories etc too, but I haven't seen if STBs have gone to that extent to support displaying some of the categories (the Topfield 5K doesn't, and I have fiddled LOTS with writing EIT into the Topfield tables as the author of EPG_uploader).
4. Some broadcasters use UPPERCASE FOR THE EVENT NAME (yes Nein, that is you!)
5. Some broadcasters use generic event names like "MIDDAY MOVIE", so you have to look at the description to see what it is, the ICE Movie:blah format is much better.
6. For broadcaster EIT you have to channel surf over 30seconds per multiplex to data fill all your LCNs (it can take more than 30secs actually to get all 7 days of broadcasted EPG), where as when the EPG is uploaded externally it is there not long after switching on the box.
7. There are value added services provided from ICE like telling you when a favourite show is about to come on, or even helping you set timers for them so you don't miss them.
I know you media centre guys have been missing out on any EPG thanks to their inability to use the DVB-T EIT (why? This is a relative concrete standard these days?), but once you are able to get broadcasted EIT, you will realise it has a number of inadequacies over the ICE EPG.
edit: why is one of my sentences displayed truncated, but when I go to edit my message, all the text is there, it is an early sentence, so can't be a char limit?
Regards
Tony
The following Member(s) said "Thank You!" to tonymy01 for this information:
When it comes down to it, the EIT as far as MC is concerned is there to schedule once off and series recordings. The quality of the EIT content is of little to no concern, what is of concern is the ability to differntiate between one show and another for the purpose of scheduling recordings and there is enough in the EIT to do that. Lets face it if we record something we want to keep, most of us will edit the recording strip out the ads and loose the EPG data anyway.
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That which is common to the greatest number has the least care bestowed upon it.
Aristotle
When it comes down to it, the EIT as far as MC is concerned is there to schedule once off and series recordings. The quality of the EIT content is of little to no concern, what is of concern is the ability to differntiate between one show and another for the purpose of scheduling recordings and there is enough in the EIT to do that. Lets face it if we record something we want to keep, most of us will edit the recording strip out the ads and loose the EPG data anyway.
Currently the broadcast EIT data is very inconsistent and not really useful for reliably scheduling series recordings in a number of cases. I use this data with my Topfield PVR and have missed episodes of shows 'cause of spelling mistakes or a missing "a" or "the" from a title name. I don't have these problems on the HTPC because I use IceTV on it.
So the quality of the EIT data is of great concern when it leads to missing episodes of your favourite shows.
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If we use EIT are we at the mercy of the FTA providers? I mean, can't they just change the description every now and again to stuff up series recordings, etc?
To date the aim of one FTA provider has been to try and stop the use of guide data that, one can only guess, creates a fear that they can not get people to watch adverts routinely. I would suspect the same thought process will ensure that EIT data is as good as useless for an EPG.
Doesn't this still leave a place for EPG data from third party providers, free or otherwise? While EIT data may be free in Fiji, will it be fit for purpose?
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Too many toys is still not enough.
I wonder if we will be able to use a combination of both i.e. use the OTA guide to fill in the channels that IceTV does not provide - ABC HD and SBS HD.
If we use EIT are we at the mercy of the FTA providers? I mean, can't they just change the description every now and again to stuff up series recordings, etc?
To date the aim of one FTA provider has been to try and stop the use of guide data that, one can only guess, creates a fear that they can not get people to watch adverts routinely. I would suspect the same thought process will ensure that EIT data is as good as useless for an EPG.
Doesn't this still leave a place for EPG data from third party providers, free or otherwise? While EIT data may be free in Fiji, will it be fit for purpose?
THAT is what needs to be addressed in any kind of "fight" with the networks. They are already providing a FREE guide now its up to us to make sure that guide is as accurate as possible. Its probably a lot more actionable than the other route as a complaint can be made to the Dept. of Fair Trading, hell we might even be able to convince the likes of Topfield / DGTEC to become invloved.
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That which is common to the greatest number has the least care bestowed upon it.
Aristotle
It will be interesting to see what transpires over the comming weeks with Tivo set to be released and apparantly relying on EIT data. Maybe this will improve the quality of the EIT data for us all.
I think you do, except for Channel Nein who broadcast None in the category part... there was mention of it in the EIT thread.
Yep that's about right Nine don't have category information but Seven and TEN do, not sure about ABC.
The actual information formatting, description and titling leaves a lot to be desired though as tonymy01 has said.
Most of it can be massaged to make it much better (I use the tools from Epgstream) and Ive been using it for about a month and its been totally reliable so far.
Of course if it goes straight into Media Center then it will be as it comes and no chance to format.
So unless they sort out that and SBS starts to send the data too then its worse than what we have now.
ExtremePC any chance of a screen cap of how the EPG looks in FIJI with EIT data ?
Because It Is Our Right 
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