AV Receivers

[Swallowtail]

OK, I spent most of Sunday connecting up my father's Sony HT DDW 880 AV receiver after they moved house, and learned some things along the way that leads me to ask some questions of you more experienced AV guys out there...

He has an HDMI capable Sony AV receiver, an HDMI capable progressive scan Pioneer DVD player, a Topfield std def PVR (composite, s-video and Scart), and a 42" Pioneer plasma (that has a single HDMI input and component, s-video and composite, etc).

When I got there he had the Toppy connected by composite straight into the Pioneer TV - and the PQ was unbelivably bad. Ticker tapes were verging on unreadable.

What we wanted was to plug everything into the Sony AV receiver, then have a single connection to the Pioneer. Simple, thought I, let's use HDMI. BUT what I discovered was that the Sony will only output over HDMI if the input is HDMI, so the Toppy which we fed in via Scart to component could not be video-fed to the TV without using a component out. And the Input3 on the Pioneer TV is HDMI with no component, and the others have component but no HDMI. So we couldn't have our single connection.

Being newbie to these things, that confused me for a while, but made sense when I thought about it (component being analog, etc). But it also seemed to be the same across ALL connections - so a component input to the Sony was only output via component, not s-video, and so on. Also, whilst we could carry audio over the HDMI from the AV receiver to the TV, there was no visible way of getting analog audio from the Sony to the TV for if he only wanted to use TV sound and not the full surround setup for sources that used the component and thus did not carry their own audio like HDMI.


So my questions are:

1. Do any receivers allow you to connect a truckful of different sources, say a Toppy via component, an HDMI DVD player, and a composite video camera, and output them all via a single cable connection to your TV? Whether that be HDMI or component?

2. If not, does that mean you'd have to connect all of the receiver's monitor out connections - composite, component, s-video and HDMI - to guarantee to be able to play all inputs to the TV? And have to switch the TV to the appropriate input based on what you were playing???

3. How do you get analog audio out from these receivers to the TV?? The only audio out on his Sony was on an MD tape set of plugs, and that didn't seem to be active...



What we ended up doing was DVD HDMI > Pioneer TV HDMI in (so sound and video for watching DVDs with TV sound only) and DVD coaxial audio out into the Sony's DVD coaxial audio in for surround; Topfield Scart into Pioneer TV's component in + analog 2ch audio for Topfield viewing with TV sound, and its optical audio into the Sony for full blown receiver sound. It works, but seems a little strange - we are not using the AV receiver for video processing at all, only for audio. I could have done DVD and Topfield both via component to the Sony, then component to the Pioneer TV, but I couldn't work out how to get 2ch audio from the Sony to the Pioneer...

Anyone have any other suggestions?

[logifuse]

1. Do any receivers allow you to connect a truckful of different sources, say a Toppy via component, an HDMI DVD player, and a composite video camera, and output them all via a single cable connection to your TV? Whether that be HDMI or component?

When you go up in models, you get up-conversion of signals (so composite, s-video & component are converted to HDMI output) & when you go further up, you get up-scaling too (so the SD signals can be converted to your HD format of choice - 720p in my case). This generally includes audio (only to 2 channel LPCM - not upconverted to 5.1 or anything like that).

I don't know the receiver/TV, so I can't really help you with your specific connections.

Justin

[duaned]

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

1. Do any receivers allow you to connect a truckful of different sources, say a Toppy via component, an HDMI DVD player, and a composite video camera, and output them all via a single cable connection to your TV? Whether that be HDMI or component?

Yep, there is now many on the market that do this. Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony to name a few.

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

2. If not, does that mean you'd have to connect all of the receiver's monitor out connections - composite, component, s-video and HDMI - to guarantee to be able to play all inputs to the TV? And have to switch the TV to the appropriate input based on what you were playing????

Yes.The simplist way is to connect the devices directly to the tv, take the digital audio output from the DVD player directly to the amp ( for 5.1 bitstream decoding). The same would apply to the Topfield (if it hads a digital audio output) , and analog 2 channel stereo cables for other devices that may output this format only. I would worry about connecting the analog 2 channel audio out from the TV as the FTA is supplied by the Topfield digital tuner.

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

3. How do you get analog audio out from these receivers to the TV?? The only audio out on his Sony was on an MD tape set of plugs, and that didn't seem to be active...



What we ended up doing was DVD HDMI > Pioneer TV HDMI in (so sound and video for watching DVDs with TV sound only) and DVD coaxial audio out into the Sony's DVD coaxial audio in for surround; Topfield Scart into Pioneer TV's component in + analog 2ch audio for Topfield viewing with TV sound, and its optical audio into the Sony for full blown receiver sound. It works, but seems a little strange - we are not using the AV receiver for video processing at all, only for audio. I could have done DVD and Topfield both via component to the Sony, then component to the Pioneer TV, but I couldn't work out how to get 2ch audio from the Sony to the Pioneer...

Anyone have any other suggestions?

If you had pre-outs on the amp you could, but really why would you want to do this? Thats the whole idea of running the audio & video via the reciever in the first place!

[Swallowtail]

Originally Posted by duaned

Yep, there is now many on the market that do this. Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony to name a few.


Yes.The simplist way is to connect the devices directly to the tv, take the digital audio output from the DVD player directly to the amp ( for 5.1 bitstream decoding). The same would apply to the Topfield (if it hads a digital audio output) , and analog 2 channel stereo cables for other devices that may output this format only. I would worry about connecting the analog 2 channel audio out from the TV as the FTA is supplied by the Topfield digital tuner.



If you had pre-outs on the amp you could, but really why would you want to do this? Thats the whole idea of running the audio & video via the reciever in the first place!

True... but to me (I may be crazy) in a perfect world what I want to do is have:

1. All input devices (DVD, Topfield, VCR, camera, etc) connected by their best possible connection (i.e. HDMI video and audio for the DVD; component video and optical audio for the Topfield; s-video and 2-ch RCA for a camera; etc) to a receiver

2. A SINGLE set of cables from the receiver to the TV that is capable of carrying video from any of the input devices to the TV - along with 2ch audio to the TV, ideally this would be HDMI that is upscaling any of the analogue inputs and passing through audio.


This would give maximum flexibility and simplicity of connections and also minimises switching of remotes for TV inputs, receiver inputs etc.

By maximum flexibility I mean that you can have ANY input producing sound either through the receiver and its speakers, or if you don't want 5.1, just through the TV's 2ch. Just turn down the volume on the TV if you want 5.1, or turn down the receiver if you only want TV 2ch sound.

Your TV is always on only 1 input (i.e. an HDMI from the receiver for video and audio) so you never have to worry about switching the TV inputs, and ALL selection of what to watch / listen to is done where it should be - on your AV Receiver.


As it is, I have had to do what you have suggested - connect video / audio inputs to the TV for each device, thus requiring input switching on the TV to select source, with each device having (fortunately) a second audio out enabling me to connect those to the receiver to enable 'bigger' audio. So we have to switch the TV AND receiver depending on what we want to watch / hear.


All because the receiver doesn't have an 'audio monitor out' to pass sound to a screen (my mum doesn't usually want the 'big' speakers on) and doesn't / can't upscale video to a HDMI out....

[vlad]

Hi,
This is what I have:

http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/produc...RX-V1800B.asp#

Have a look at the attachment

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Vlad/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/Users/Vlad/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]

[ExtremePC]

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

True... but to me (I may be crazy) in a perfect world what I want to do is have:

1. All input devices (DVD, Topfield, VCR, camera, etc) connected by their best possible connection (i.e. HDMI video and audio for the DVD; component video and optical audio for the Topfield; s-video and 2-ch RCA for a camera; etc) to a receiver

2. A SINGLE set of cables from the receiver to the TV that is capable of carrying video from any of the input devices to the TV - along with 2ch audio to the TV, ideally this would be HDMI that is upscaling any of the analogue inputs and passing through audio.


This would give maximum flexibility and simplicity of connections and also minimises switching of remotes for TV inputs, receiver inputs etc.

By maximum flexibility I mean that you can have ANY input producing sound either through the receiver and its speakers, or if you don't want 5.1, just through the TV's 2ch. Just turn down the volume on the TV if you want 5.1, or turn down the receiver if you only want TV 2ch sound.

Your TV is always on only 1 input (i.e. an HDMI from the receiver for video and audio) so you never have to worry about switching the TV inputs, and ALL selection of what to watch / listen to is done where it should be - on your AV Receiver.


As it is, I have had to do what you have suggested - connect video / audio inputs to the TV for each device, thus requiring input switching on the TV to select source, with each device having (fortunately) a second audio out enabling me to connect those to the receiver to enable 'bigger' audio. So we have to switch the TV AND receiver depending on what we want to watch / hear.


All because the receiver doesn't have an 'audio monitor out' to pass sound to a screen (my mum doesn't usually want the 'big' speakers on) and doesn't / can't upscale video to a HDMI out....

I still don't get what the problem is, many recievers allow you to do exactly what you ask for. As stated earlier Onkyo, Yamaha, Sony all have models that do what you ask for.

[Swallowtail]

I'm aware that a lot now do that - but from a quick look it's only the more expensive ones that have something as simple as audio out.

Vlad - exactly what I would like, but a Yammy 1800 is $2K.... ouch.

Mum and Dad are set up now OK, just having to do a bit of remote swapping to do what they want (need to set up their Harmony, but haven't had a chance).


The purpose of this post originally was to see if anyone had any better suggestions to connect what Dad already had - his Sony doesn't do either the video upconverting / upscaling, nor does it have 2ch audio out that I can work out (except on a tape out which is not always active). That has been answered, looks like I am doing it the best I can.

The good thing (although maybe not for my bank account) is that I now know a lot more about what I want when I get an AV receiver for me, which I guess is what my other comments have been about - a simple audio out would be a great feature allowing for 2ch TV audio regardless of source from the receiver, in a more budget line rather than the $1000+ ones...

Ah well, at least I know now what I am up for.
Thanks.

[vlad]

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

I'm aware that a lot now do that - but from a quick look it's only the more expensive ones that have something as simple as audio out.

Vlad - exactly what I would like, but a Yammy 1800 is $2K.... ouch.

That is RRP, I have got mine for $1500
Have a look at RX-V663
http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/produc.../RXV663NPB.pdf
"The RX-V663 provides analogue video to HDMI digital
upconversion (composite video <-> S-Video <->
component video -> HDMI) and also analogue video
signals deinterlaced from 480i/576i to 480p/576p are
output at HDMI terminal."

[Swallowtail]

Originally Posted by vlad

That is RRP, I have got mine for $1500
Have a look at RX-V663
http://www.yamahamusic.com.au/produc.../RXV663NPB.pdf
"The RX-V663 provides analogue video to HDMI digital
upconversion (composite video <-> S-Video <->
component video -> HDMI) and also analogue video
signals deinterlaced from 480i/576i to 480p/576p are
output at HDMI terminal."

Isn't there an issue with the Yammies and HDMI from the Gigabyte board not carrying audio? Sees it as a DVI rather than HDMI so won't do audio... I'm sure I read that somewhere on here.

[ExtremePC]

Originally Posted by Swallowtail

I'm aware that a lot now do that - but from a quick look it's only the more expensive ones that have something as simple as audio out.

Vlad - exactly what I would like, but a Yammy 1800 is $2K.... ouch.

Mum and Dad are set up now OK, just having to do a bit of remote swapping to do what they want (need to set up their Harmony, but haven't had a chance).


The purpose of this post originally was to see if anyone had any better suggestions to connect what Dad already had - his Sony doesn't do either the video upconverting / upscaling, nor does it have 2ch audio out that I can work out (except on a tape out which is not always active). That has been answered, looks like I am doing it the best I can.

The good thing (although maybe not for my bank account) is that I now know a lot more about what I want when I get an AV receiver for me, which I guess is what my other comments have been about - a simple audio out would be a great feature allowing for 2ch TV audio regardless of source from the receiver, in a more budget line rather than the $1000+ ones...

Ah well, at least I know now what I am up for.
Thanks.

I just picked up an 1800 for $1400 on 6 months interest free for my bro. (sorry Vlad. )