Jaggered movement ... in windows & MC

Schmee · **14th March 2008, 01:00 PM**

Hello All,

Looking for some advice on getting rid of annoying jaggered lines on anything that is moving!!

This happens to video from within Media Center and ASLO when back on the windows screen - so I don't think its to do with MC itself .. more likely video drivers or other settings.

I have a new Philips HDTV (native 1920x1080) 42" LCD which I drive with an ATI card that has HDMI output connector (no dongle as such). The card is actually an Xpert Vision 2600 Pro Sonic. The cable is a generic $60 one from Harvey Norman .. it may end up being the culprit!!

Windows itself shows the TV as a generic Plug & Play ... not specifically as the Philips. The ATI software (CCC) DOES detect that it has a Philips FTV connected.

CCC is a real pain to set up/adjust ... minimal information about what each setting does in 'plain english' ... if you're an AV anal retentive then you'd probably get all the lingo - but for the average Joe trying to understand anti-aliasing bla bla bla is just mind blowing ...

The problem I get is with anything that is moving ... it could be just the mouse pointer moving or fast movement on TV/Video ... particularly noticable with left and right movements. It appears that the leading/trailing edges develope additional black lines. For example when the green highlight box in MC moves between the options or when thumbnails slide out they all get this annoying jaggered look ...as soon as they stop the picture is crystal clear.

Can anybody give me a quick rundown on how I should have all of this set up and configured ... if I need to spend $150 and get a monster cable I will do so ... but I can't really see how the cable could make THAT big a difference (certaintly cant see $150+ in a couple of bits of wires with a plug each end too ...somebody is creaming the market).

I thought that the issue may have been to do with the TV itself needing to be ON before the PC or visa versa - but that seems to make no difference either (ie some sort of auto detection/setup).

Look forward to any suggestions ...

TheRob · **14th March 2008, 01:27 PM**

Don't shell out for a Monster cable just yet. I've got a cheap, generic HDMI cable and have no problems whatsoever with the video.

Does your TV has some sort of 'motion enhancement' feature or 'dynamic' mode that you can turn off? Sometimes poorly executed motion processing algorthms can make the picture look terrible.

logifuse · **14th March 2008, 04:10 PM**

Are you running at 1080p or 1080i? It sounds like interlacing lines to me (1080i)

Look at the edges in this photo - is this the kind of thing?

1080p should be 1920x1080@50Hz.

If it's 1080i, it will be 1920x1080@25 or 30hz (30Hz is even worse than 25).

Justin

Schmee · **15th March 2008, 09:18 AM**

Thanks to both TheRob & Logifuse for responding ...

TheRob ... yes the TV does have both of the features you mentioned but playing with them made very little difference. These features seem to work the way they should with enhancing the picture althought the motion settings can make the picture look a little fake if set too high.

Logifuse ... spot on with your evaluation!!

I actually found a thread off on some distant site that mentioned the issue. The issue is exactly as per your photo although not quite to that degree.

From the info I got off that site it was a combination of both the TV setting AND the ATI driver configuration. At the moment I have it running at 720p and it now looks fantastic but I will try the settings you suggested too for 1080p.

For anybody with one of these Philips TV's here's a little bit of a heads up .... in the manual where it talks about 'naming' your connections be aware that this is not only the name of the connection but it ALSO configures the input. Each available 'name' changes the inputs biasing and these can make a huge difference in picture quality. Once you know this then the way it is written in the manual can be applied to 'make sense' ... but it can also be read (as I originally did) to look like it's simply applying a 'friendly' name to make it easy to identify.

Thanks again to both who replied ... hopefully this thread will help other people down the track too ...

Schmee · **15th March 2008, 11:31 AM**

OK ..I just went and tried the 1080 settings ....

There's not much difference that I can actually see between 720p and 1080i.

There is no setting in the ATI CCC to allow for 1080p @ 50Hz ... but there is 1080p @ 60Hz.

My old eyes can't detect any difference between any of the settings really ... so I'm not too sure which setting to leave it on. I think that if there's no difference I can see between the settings that I would leave it on 720p - the thought there is that 720p may be easier work for the video card, processor & TV ...is that correct???

I suppose another question is "what's the highest FTA transmittion in Aus" ... there'd be no point in going to a higher setting if the signal is not up to anyway ... would it actually look worse trying to run say 1080 from a FTA signal thats only 720?

Once I get my BlueRay drive and some disks then I gather I'd need to revise the settings at that point anyway ...

So what are peoples thoughts on the best resolution/setup to run...???

TheRob · **17th March 2008, 05:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmee

I suppose another question is "what's the highest FTA transmittion in Aus" ... there'd be no point in going to a higher setting if the signal is not up to anyway ... would it actually look worse trying to run say 1080 from a FTA signal thats only 720?

No broadcasts are done at 720p in Australia. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe most broadcast HD TV is less 576p, though Ten does broadcast some 1080i material.

So basically, unless you are running a BluRay player the video will be scaled. If 720p gives you good results, then stick with that. I have.

logifuse · **17th March 2008, 05:41 PM**

ABCHD = 720p
SBSHD = 576p
7HD = 1080i
9HD = 1080i (actually 1440x1080i anamorphic)
10HD = 1080i

The actual content on the other hand.

I think the best rule of thumb is output a progressive signal as close as your panels native res (720p on a 1366x768 panel in my case). That means that your video card is doing the lion's share of the scaling and all of the deinterlacing - I think today's powerful graphics cards are better at this than the processing within the panel (certainly true for the lower end of the panel market).

Justin

TheRob · **18th March 2008, 03:34 PM**

Thanks for correcting me

logifuse · **18th March 2008, 04:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRob

Thanks for correcting me

It has changed over recent times and was an arguement used by the digital nay-sayers back in the day (i.e. "there's no point to digital TV, even the HD isn't HD").

ABCHD and 7HD were originally 576p. ABCHD went to 720p in 2006, 7HD went to 1440x1080i (should have stayed there as it had less macro-blocking) and then 1920x1080i late last year.

Out of interest, which HD channel do you think is best? I think 9HD probably shades 10HD (when showing actual HD content). ABCHD rarely shows HD content, but its upscaling is pretty good. 7HD just seems to not quite have the bandwidth to cope. SBSHD - well, when you're upscaling content that looks like Youtube videos......

Justin

dgaust · **18th March 2008, 04:38 PM**

I'd agree. 9HD is the best for quality, followed by 10 (this is on a 720p screen though).

As for ABCHD, I find it reasonable at 720p. I watch Jekyll the other day, and it looked pretty good.

logifuse · **18th March 2008, 04:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgaust

I'd agree. 9HD is the best for quality, followed by 10 (this is on a 720p screen though).

As for ABCHD, I find it reasonable at 720p. I watch Jekyll the other day, and it looked pretty good.

Yep, a 720p screen here too.

I was watching 4Corners/Media Watch/The Mafia last night on ABCHD & was thinking it was pretty nice (considering it's upscaled SD AFAIK). I hope they don't cannibalize the bitrate for ABC3, but I can't see how they could avoid it.

Justin