so you thought your home game console setup was cool

audiophile · **29th August 2008, 10:20 AM**

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=e7NLKUkb7rg

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=3kd3_M...eature=related

ExtremePC · **29th August 2008, 10:41 AM**

pathetic! look at the screen on the first video and note the horizon through the windscreen, it supposed to stay level and the "frame" should move only by the amount the virtual car deviates from the in game horizon. What you see in the clip is far too excessive.

Waldoverkill · **29th August 2008, 12:33 PM**

As the screen tilts with you it is not supposed to match the horizon.

The tilt is to provide G force.

I WANT ONE.

Circuit · **29th August 2008, 01:16 PM**

They look like fun to me I'd give it a go, reminds me of the gun turrets in the Millennium Falcon.

ExtremePC · **29th August 2008, 01:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldoverkill

As the screen tilts with you it is not supposed to match the horizon.

The tilt is to provide G force.

I WANT ONE.

Have a better think about that, its because the screen tilts that it needs to match the horizon and the direction/angle of gravity.

Waldoverkill · **29th August 2008, 02:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExtremePC

Have a better think about that, its because the screen tilts that it needs to match the horizon and the direction/angle of gravity.

Polite as possible -- -- -- You are mistaken

ExtremePC · **29th August 2008, 03:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldoverkill

Polite as possible -- -- -- You are mistaken

I've done some freelance programming work for QANTAS on their simulators so I believe I do know what I'm taking about.

Applying g-forces that don't match up to gravity and the viewable horizon is just not trying hard enough.

The interior of the car in the simulator is fixed in position to the screen, the virtual world outside the virtual car is fixed to the movement of the capsule so moving say 20 degrees down left of horizon on screen should make the "capsule" also move 20 degrees down right off perpendicular in the real world. The +ve and -ve g-forces are determined by the speed with which the capsule gets to a point NOT by exagerating the angles in real life compared to on screen.

The capsule is NOT capable of creating a false gravity so all movements MUST be tied to real gravity, and the easiest way to do that is to accurately tie the horizon to the capsule movements, so 10 degrees onscreen is 10 degrees realworld.

Waldoverkill · **29th August 2008, 04:15 PM**

I'll push my luck here...

What you say is true for a flight sim where the "aircraft" rolls. In a car sim where the car rolls only slightly the g-force (or inertia) is delivered by the seat tipping in the opposite direction to the turn making you you think you are being pushed sideways in you seat.

The tilt needs to be proportional to the "g-force" and has nothing to do with the horzon.

Your argument would mean that if you were simulating a go kart (which does not roll) the seat would not tip at all because the horizon does not tilt.

Wal

ExtremePC · **29th August 2008, 04:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldoverkill

I'll push my luck here...

What you say is true for a flight sim where the "aircraft" rolls. In a car sim where the car rolls only slightly the g-force (or inertia) is delivered by the seat tipping in the opposite direction to the turn making you you think you are being pushed sideways in you seat.

The tilt needs to be proportional to the "g-force" and has nothing to do with the horzon.

Your argument would mean that if you were simulating a go kart (which does not roll) the seat would not tip at all because the horizon does not tilt.

Wal

No, the g-force delivered is dependant on the speed, both the speed at which the capsule gets to a given angle and the speed at which it comes to a halt. The level of tilt does not affect or determine the g-force.

In the go-kart analogy you may only tilt by a few degrees but if applied and stopped quick enough, can deliver the same g-force as a space shuttle taking off. obviously the length of time that g-force can be applied over such a short travel will be minute.

Waldoverkill · **29th August 2008, 04:36 PM**

If the virtual car is pulling a .2G turn for 30 seconds I am sure it would feel pretty real if the seat you are in is tipped over at 30-40deg (for 30 seconds) and the only other frame of reference you have is the big curved road on the screen in front of you. The return to the level position would have to be gentle I agree so that you don't feel like you are going to far the other way.

Again, even your reply above agrees that the horizon has nothing to do with the tilt of the seat - the level of g-force has everything to do with the tilt of the seat.

Also take the case of a simulation of a centrifuge. If the seat is tipped all the way over on its side you will sure feel like you are in a 1G centrifuge.

ExtremePC · **29th August 2008, 05:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldoverkill

If the virtual car is pulling a .2G turn for 30 seconds I am sure it would feel pretty real if the seat you are in is tipped over at 30-40deg (for 30 seconds) and the only other frame of reference you have is the big curved road on the screen in front of you. The return to the level position would have to be gentle I agree so that you don't feel like you are going to far the other way.

Again, even your reply above agrees that the horizon has nothing to do with the tilt of the seat - the level of g-force has everything to do with the tilt of the seat.

Also take the case of a simulation of a centrifuge. If the seat is tipped all the way over on its side you will sure feel like you are in a 1G centrifuge.

The simulator has no hope of replicating a .2G turn for 30 seconds the best it can do is simulate .2G for a fraction of a second and then lean the seat at the angle the virtual car is tilted at, the occupant only knows and "feels" they're on an angle because of gravity, if the angle they are seeing on screen and the angle their body "feels" is as wildly different as shown in the video clip then it will feel "odd" and very unrealistic and a little disorientating, after all the purpose of the simulator is to add realism so what is the point when then angles you feel are not the same as what your eyes are telling you?

As for replicating an 1G centrifuge simply by leaning, you can try it at home, just lay down on the floor on your side .... do you feel like you're in a 1G centrifuge? ...... probably not.

The seat is designed more for adding a "realness" to the simulation by allowing the occupant to feel the lean in accordance to what the car is doing in the virtual world, the only parameter that you can make common to both world IS the direction of gravity and its 90 degree perpendicular horizon, if you mess with those parameters why build it at all?

Put it this way if you mounted the simulator on a wall so you were still facing parrallel to the horizon and strapped youself in the entire sensation of inaccurate virtual horizon vs. completely wrong gravitational direction would be so distracting that playing would be near impossible.

Waldoverkill · **29th August 2008, 05:33 PM**

Good point about my centrifuge example - - - My Bad

I still maintain that you cannot say the simulation is pathetic simply because it is tilting futher than the horizon. The speed and angle of the tilt has nothing to do with the horizon, unless of course the car is travelling in a straight line along a ?cambered? road.