Can I skip cropdetect?

jrobgood · **3rd October 2005, 05:20 PM**

Is there an .ini keyword I can insert to skip the scale and crop detect?

Crunchie seems to want to mess up my US NTSC MCE-captured files by overcropping into the image.

I'd like to just have it process and re-encode the files if possible.

Thanks!

-Rob.

arkay · **3rd October 2005, 07:37 PM**

Hi Rob,

Can you let me know a little more about what's happening. I'd rater fix it than disable it if it's not working properly as there are legitimate reasons for doing crop detection.

Far as I know it works well for Australian content so if it needs some adjustment for NTSC then that's perfectly doable.

So, can you please tell me:

1. Are these SD or HD recordings.
2. Are they analog of digital.
3. What is the native resolution of the broadcast.
4. How long was the clip that failed?

etc etc. Anything you can tell me. Also, if you have a short clip I might get you to send it to me so I can see whats not working and rectify it.

Thanks.

Cheers,
Arkay.

ern · **4th October 2005, 04:43 PM**

I also get the odd time that crop detect detects 4.3 rather than 16.9. I presume when "detecting" it finds a 4.3 section on the recording (from an advert)?
Happend last night recording 51st state

pal, DVB-T recording, UK

A switch or ini adjustment to force 16.9 would be great
Tried
FORCE169==1
which did not work

regards

ern

jrobgood · **4th October 2005, 05:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkay

1. Are these SD or HD recordings.
2. Are they analog of digital.
3. What is the native resolution of the broadcast.
4. How long was the clip that failed?

1. SD with an OEM MCE 2005 Sony VAIO
2. Analog
3. 720x480
4. Every clip I've tried from my MCE has cropped oddly, so it doesn't seem related to the source

I'll try to figure out a way to trim and move some clips to my public server.

Thanks!

ern · **4th October 2005, 05:53 PM**

Quote:

I also get the odd time that crop detect detects 4.3 rather than 16.9

I think i found the problem
loaded the file into tmpg dvd author and it reported 544x576 !!
normally the recordings are 704x576, 25fps, 16.9, pal, 8000kps
so quite why it is showing 544x576 i cant understand
when u play file it looks like normal 16.9 705x576
my guess is it is 705x576 but somehow the file reports itself as 544x576. Maybe a broadcast issue ?
As a 544x576 file can not be 16.9 ratio crunchie encodes it to 4.3

If a force 16.9 switch and force crop switch was available I guess it would convert and look ok

regards

ern

jrobgood · **4th October 2005, 06:56 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkay

etc etc. Anything you can tell me. Also, if you have a short clip I might get you to send it to me so I can see whats not working and rectify it.

OK, here are snippets of the files.

http://jrob.net/transfer/inFile.dvr-ms
http://jrob.net/transfer/outFile.avi
http://jrob.net/transfer/cropdetect.mpg

I presume the pseudo-letterboxing of the show is causing the detection problem. What I'm thinking, though, is that for a VAST majority of users, the infile will be of a known and reliable resolution, and similarly, the scaling should be 100% (again, thinking in the majority here) and I'm wondering if providing for override controls of crop and scale would save parsing and processing time?

NB: I changed my 4:3 aspect to 720x480 to correspond with how these files are captured here in the States. I still had the same problem when it was at factory default of 640x480. Full .ini file below.

Thanks!
-Rob.

Code:

AGE==0
AR169==720:368
AR43==720:480
AVI==E:\Media\rips
BITRATE==1600
CHECKAGE==0
DEINT==pp=md
DELETE_DVRMS==0
DELETE_MPG==1
DOUBLE_DEINT==0
DVRMSTOMPEG==C:\Program Files\DVRMSToolbox
DVRMS_PATH==E:\Media\video\to_rip
EXCLUDE==0
EXCLUSIONS==
FORCE43==1
INCLUSIONS==.
MPEGONLY==0
MPEG_TMP==D:\Recorded TV\mpgtmp
MPLAYER==C:\Program Files\Arksoft\Arksofts Crunchie\
PASS1==vhq=1:max_bframes=2 -nosound -noodml
PASS2==vhq=1:max_bframes=2 -oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128:mode=1 -noodml
RENAME_DVRMS==0
TVMODES==PAL,NTSC
TVSYSTEM==NTSC
TWOPASS==1
USE_SUBFOLDERS==1

jrobgood · **4th October 2005, 06:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ern

I think i found the problem
loaded the file into tmpg dvd author and it reported 544x576 !!
normally the recordings are 704x576, 25fps, 16.9, pal, 8000kps
so quite why it is showing 544x576 i cant understand
when u play file it looks like normal 16.9 705x576
my guess is it is 705x576 but somehow the file reports itself as 544x576. Maybe a broadcast issue ?
As a 544x576 file can not be 16.9 ratio crunchie encodes it to 4.3

If a force 16.9 switch and force crop switch was available I guess it would convert and look ok

regards

ern

Sounds like a rectangular pixel issue to me.

arkay · **4th October 2005, 07:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrobgood

OK, here are snippets of the files.

http://jrob.net/transfer/inFile.dvr-ms
http://jrob.net/transfer/outFile.avi
http://jrob.net/transfer/cropdetect.mpg

Hi,

Can't get the first file, doesn't seem to want to let me, comes back with browser errors. Can you please check and let me know.

I've had other users tell me about these wired 544x480 files. It'll be good to get a look at one so I can see what's really going on.

Please let me know when you've checked the link and I'll try again.

Cheers,
Arkay.

jrobgood · **5th October 2005, 02:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkay

Can't get the first file, doesn't seem to want to let me, comes back with browser errors. Can you please check and let me know.

Sorry, server choked on the mimetype... I've zipped it now:
http://jrob.net/transfer/inFile.zip

Quote:

Originally Posted by arkay

I've had other users tell me about these wired 544x480 files. It'll be good to get a look at one so I can see what's really going on.

To be clear, all my source files are 720x480... the other poster who jumped into this thread is suffering from the 544x480 files. FWIW that pixel width oddity sure looks like a square versus rectangular pixel isse to me. Especially since the height is unchanged.

-Rob.

arkay · **5th October 2005, 03:39 PM**

Hi jrobgood,

Had a quick play with your test clip today. I think the problem with that clip is the PBS logo at the bottom. They've splatted it right over the image boundary.

Can you tell me what exactly is wrong with the converted avi in your eyes. My conversion came out the same as yours. In comparing it to the original dvr-ms file I could only notice (and this is really looking hard for it), maybe 1 or two pixels from the left hand side cropped and a few pixels of the PBS logo missing.

The crop detect seems to have worked really well for that clip actually as it has black borders right the way around the image.

This is all a little hard to explain in text but. Basically if you don't trim the black from around the dvr-ms when you play it back in MCE it won't fill the screen and you won't be able to zoom in on it like you can with live TV (as it's a xvid file and MS hate to support non MS codecs).

On top of this xvid works in 16x16 pixel "macroblocks", so the cropping has to occur on a 16 pixel boundary. It looks like with this clip the boundary it selected resulted in minor clipping of the PBS logo.

I take it that you find those few missing lines over such a small area to be annoying?

Can you let me know what your expected result would be? You'll find that most converted TV shows have lost a few pixels/lines around them during the conversion. Just that normally it's not so obvious as it is with this clip.

If you keep the black (and don't crop), you waste bandwidth in the encode resulting in either larger file size or lesser quality which are the exact opposite qualities of what you are trying to achiew via compression!

Let me know what you think about the above... Originally I thought it may have been getting it completely wrong and converting a 16:9 image to a VERY cropped 4:3 image but that isn't the case.

Cheers,
Arkay.
It got the aspect ratio (16:9) correct.

jrobgood · **5th October 2005, 03:50 PM**

I should send you a second clip, which is much worse. When I record BBC America shows, the black vertical padding is even worse and more pronounced, which then results in an even more wacky undercrop.

So, I guess if this is expected behavior (that is to say, working as designed) then I'm OK with it. It is just a bit wacky when I see UI elements (like the brief overlay from my STB when MCE is changing channels at the beginning of a recording) cut in half, due to the aggressive undercrop that seems to occur on certain shows, especially ones in the US that are shown in faux-letterbox... about halfway in between 16:9 and 4:3, mostly prevalent on NBC.

Again, at the risk of a bit of suboptimal compression, I'd still love to let 'er rip pixel-for-pixel and not scale for me.

If I haven't mentioned it, great piece of software though :-)

-Rob.

arkay · **7th October 2005, 12:14 AM**

Can you grab me another clip to take a look at please?

I might be able to add a no crop/scale option to the ini file and not the gui so those it doesn't get used like that by default but I don't know at this point when I'll get the time to do it as it would mean a new release as well.

Cheers,
Arkay.