First attempt at a server & Rackmount Media Server

[chaosphere]

Hi guys, I’m relatively new to all this and am looking for some advice on setting up a Home network/Home media network.
What I want to do is set up a home media system, fully hardwired and integrated into the house.
Id like to do most of it myself as it’s a hobby, and also it ensures I know how the system will work eventually (and be able to do repairs and upgrades).
I’m an engineer so have no trouble with the technicalities of it, and have built my own PC’s before with no trouble and consider myself fairly computer literate.
In this situation let’s assume I’m not needing to be super tight with my money and am happy to buy things if they’re worthwhile. (Without getting excessive and spending 100’s of 1000’s!).
Problem is I'm not really well versed on how to build servers and what goes with them in terms of running them. Id ideally love a LINUX system as it is completely open to my adaption, but I simply don’t know enough about programming at this point to do it, so at this point unless there’s better suggestions id go with Windows Home server 2008 and versions of Windows media Centre. (Please feel free to advise me of different softwares available).
What I want to do:
Set up a Data network throughout the house.
I would ideally like to set up a server system in a rack configuration within a space in the house.
One that I can add to and upgrade when needed.
I have searched high and low for references on how to build a server and what would be needed for my purposes, but it’s not easy to find anything, especially in terms of rack architecture.
What I want it to do:
• To serve as a file server – being able to stream all media to every outlet in the house INDEPENDANTLY. I.e. can watch multiple files simultaneously in different zones.
• To be a massive storage hub & backup destination for all files from HTPC’s and desktop PC’s
• A PVR server would also be useful if that’s possible – again to be able to be used simultaneously from each centre. I understand this will require multiple Tuner cards which is fine – but is it possible to house the multiple cards (lets say 5) in the one Rack mount case (1U/2U/4U), and if so what else would be needed to make it work? MOBO/Ram etc?
• A print server
• An internet Router to serve all access points.
The questions I have which are arising from my research:
 Are you able to daisy chain multiple servers with HDD’s I’m sure you can? I’m not sure of how the HDD setup would work/be configured? Do you have the one server and then just link up as many cases of HDD’s as you want? Or do you need a full new Server&MOBO with each new case?
 What sort of hardware would I need to build the servers?MOBO, Graphics Cards, RAM, HDD etc.
 How would I piece together these servers?
 What would the cabling requirements be? Can everything be in HiDef (1080p or higher for future..) and Digital audio (7.1 min)? for every media outlet throughout the house? Cat 5? Fibre Optic?
 The main media room will have a dedicated AV receiver to distribute 7.1 sound. The others will not. Is it possible to have that output capability (i.e. 7.1+ speaker cable connections) on the back of each HTPC (much like an AV receiver)? Or conversely have it run from the server hub?
 Can anyone suggest links to companies and sites which could help me in my search / selling products?
 How would all this sort of thing be cabled up to work properly? Can anyone help with the architecture or recommend someone who can?
Ideally I’m imagining having a rack unit (or more if necessary) of cases dedicated to each component (file server, PVR, Print etc) then have them linked into multiple 4U rack cases simply filled with HDD’s. Is that how they work? Or does each server need its own HDD’s and work independently?
The idea is to have simply a TV and a smaller HTPC at each access point and that’s it. Then everything is controlled at the Server Hub via each HTPC or PC with a nice GUI. I.e. recording, viewing, listening etc. it would be as if each access point is its own independent centre however they’re all linked into the one big server. All the processes are accessed through each access point TV screen via a remote control. So you can watch anything, listen to anything, record anything etc and then also get into the file manager and move/rename etc files (if you add a keyboard) from every access point. Ideally you can also use it as a home PC to web browse and maybe word process/play games/view docs etc.
I would ideally also like to add a Sky/foxtel/Pay TV dimension to this system. Again with multi-room capabilities. (Whether I do this legitimately or not is not under consideration at this point – I simply want to set up the infrastructure and know if it’s possible). Could I hypothetically take out all the guts of multiple Satellite boxes (dreambox?) and stack them in say, a 4U rackmount case? Then have this slot nicely integrated into my rack system? How would I configure it?
This is by no means exhaustive either, so if anyone has the know how or expertise and wants to help me work my way around and through this project it'd be greatly appreciated!

[Subi75]

Originally Posted by chaosphere

• To serve as a file server – being able to stream all media to every outlet in the house INDEPENDANTLY. I.e. can watch multiple files simultaneously in different zones.

You would need a Gigabyte switch to do this, preferably a mid-high corporate version as most of the computer store switches arent as smart as the corporate editions.
Depending on how many locations (read data ports) you plan to install, not to mention the number of servers, etc,) you would be best getting a 48 port rack-mount (2U) unit, or at the least a 24port (1U) leaving room in the rack for additional switches for expansion.If need be, possibly try to divide the setup into "regions" (via either subnets or physical connections to seperate switches) so you are transferring different types of data through those subnets / switches (eg standard data / backup traffic over a specific network / subnet, HTPC traffic on another network / subnet, etc). This will reduce traffic at the switch and possibly server data ports, therefore giving better response on those specific network segments. You can put in cross links between the switches, etc, but you are better of at least trying to keep different traffic types seperate.
As for the server itself, this will need to be a high-spec box, probably running SCSI and or SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) drives, which will give the higher read speeds off the server. Likewise, I'd be looking at running your system in RAID 5 config, with as many drives as possible for the case to ensure that you get the highest speeds possible.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

• To be a massive storage hub & backup destination for all files from HTPC’s and desktop PC’s

Like I said above, seperate this traffic, if possible, from the HTPC traffic. As I doubt that you would be running backups of your PC's at the same time as accessing the data on the server from the same pc's, you shouldn't need to seperate your general data and backup across seperate networks.
To do the Storage location for your data (and probably for your backups) You will need to build a NAS. To go hardcore, you could buy a pre-made server (HP, Dell, etc) with multiple external SCSI card ports for external drive arrays. Being rack mounted, each array could hold 16+ SCSI / SAS drives. To do this as a mobo, you could get the external array cases, but I'm not so sure for the server case and scsi cards.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

• A PVR server would also be useful if that’s possible – again to be able to be used simultaneously from each centre. I understand this will require multiple Tuner cards which is fine – but is it possible to house the multiple cards (lets say 5) in the one Rack mount case (1U/2U/4U), and if so what else would be needed to make it work? MOBO/Ram etc?

If your planning on running so many cards, then you would be looking at a 4U case. I'll leave the specifics up to others with more knowledge of PVRs

Originally Posted by chaosphere

• A print server

If you are going to run either a Linux or Windows Server/s they can actually run as your print server in addition to doing other functions. Print servering for a household would be a small load, so any system running as a server could do this (even a desktop PC can act as a print server).

Originally Posted by chaosphere

• An internet Router to serve all access points.

This could be a server with the appropriate software, or otherwise a standard ADSL router. If using a normal ADSL router, I would strongly recommend you have it hardwire connected directly to a specific server running as a firewall, which is then connected to your network. This is for personal safety, and would also give you the option of restricting access outbound in a greater way then an ADSL router would.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

The questions I have which are arising from my research:

 Are you able to daisy chain multiple servers with HDD’s I’m sure you can? I’m not sure of how the HDD setup would work/be configured? Do you have the one server and then just link up as many cases of HDD’s as you want? Or do you need a full new Server&MOBO with each new case?

See my above comment under the query regarding the storage hub and backup network

Originally Posted by chaosphere

 What sort of hardware would I need to build the servers?MOBO, Graphics Cards, RAM, HDD etc.

This depends on exactly what you want to do, how much data you expect to have, what your cash flow is, and where you plan to install your rack. I'd recommend looking for refurb or second-hand pre-built servers (eg HP, Dell) from action houses like GraysOnline ([html]http://www.graysonline.com.au[html]). Depending on the age, wear, and source, they could come with 6+ mths warranty and may be fully tested and guaranteed not to have defects.

If you want to do full MoBo's, or go for more generic servers that are cheaper and brand new, check your local and online computer stores. Most sell cases (normally not rack-mount) and also pre-made servers, not to mention the basic components required.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

 How would I piece together these servers?

See previous answer

Originally Posted by chaosphere

 What would the cabling requirements be? Can everything be in HiDef (1080p or higher for future..) and Digital audio (7.1 min)? for every media outlet throughout the house? Cat 5? Fibre Optic?

For your data network, CAT6, with fibre between switches, and / or SAN / NAS if possible. For the HTPC's, etc, if you are just planning on running cable from the rack straight to the displays, I'll leave that to those "with the know" on that side of things.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

 Can anyone suggest links to companies and sites which could help me in my search / selling products?

For brand name servers
HP (

http://www.hp.com

)
Dell (

http://www.dell.com

)
IBM (

http://www.ibm.com

)
Thats just a sample, but they are the main ones out there with pre-made corporate level servers.

Originally Posted by chaosphere

Ideally I’m imagining having a rack unit (or more if necessary) of cases dedicated to each component (file server, PVR, Print etc) then have them linked into multiple 4U rack cases simply filled with HDD’s. Is that how they work? Or does each server need its own HDD’s and work independently?

If need be, it may be easier (and cheaper) to build specific machines for the PVR / HTPC's, and run everything else from Virtual Machines (eg VMware ESX or VMserver -

http://www.vmware.com

) on a single (or multiple) physical hosts. Keeping in mind that These should be connected to either external drive arrays or a SAN environment for best performance, and would be where all your data is actually stored, including the actual virtual machines themselves.



As for everything else, it comes down to how your house is setup, where you plan to store the rack/s and how much money your planning on spending. From what I've said above, using corporate level equipment, you would be looking at an easy $100k to do it properly, and thats just hardware! Id recommend you look at auctions, etc, for 2nd hand corporate servers that are only a couple (2-3) years old, with as much ram / cpu spec as possible in those. HDD's are easier to come by then the CPU's and RAM for those systems.

[lellis]

How many 'points' to view all of this are you talking?

[TiggerK]

Hi chaosphere,

yes, let's get an idea of how much storage you're thinking of, and how many extenders you're planning on having?? Keep it as simple as possible is always a good starting piece of advice.

On a mid level budget you could just find a good case Lian-Li etc - (rack mounts don't always have as many HDD bays as full towers but you can prob find something decent), a good SATA/SAS RAID Card like the Adaptec 31205 which is in my file server running 9 x 1TB hard drives in a RAID 6 array, giving 6.15TB of available space and can handle up to 2 drives failing. (card can run up to 12 drives). It just never misses a beat. Add a UPS with auto power off via USB in case of a longer power failure, a mid range Quad Core (9550 would be easily powerful enough), 3 or 4GB DDR2-800 RAM, Intel Mainboard G45 or similar (IMHO), 2 or 3 Hauppauge HVR-2200 cards (you'll have to watch the number of PCI-E slots), maybe a HVR-1300 in order to integrate Foxtel (although this won't be quite so easy, possible, but you will lose a bit of picture quality and surround sound ability). You may be better off looking into an IQ or IQ-HD box in the main viewing area, with a few different quality feeds to diff parts of the house, although remote controlling from other locations might require some fancier hardware, but it's all possible. You could have one dedicated file server, and a dedicated media 'recorder', auto-moving files etc, but I'd be tempted to go for one decent box and expand from there as you see fit.

You can also add 5 drive (e.g Thecus) NAS boxes with tons of storage to your Gigabit LAN network, and easily have an extra 3 or 4TB extra if needed as well.

Just a start of some ideas anyway...

Cheers
TiggerK

[arkay]

Chaosphere,

Just some advice first of all. Some of hardware specced up there is way in advance of what a corporate multi-room video conferencing system would need.

The way you need to tackle it is to write out a list of every room in your house and what you need in each room at any given time.

A lot is dependant on the size of your requirements. For instance, I already have everything you list above (except cable/satellite), running in my house. The server is a P4 1.8Gz with 2gb ram and it serves up to 5 pc's in my house, so it depends on the size of what you're trying to achieve. Not all those 5 are in use at the same time. Or some might be playing audio while others are watching video etc. You can't possibly hope to get valid answers regarding what hardware you need until you fully understand the requirements. You'll just end up with "corporate switches and SAS drives with HP servers and Vmware ESX" from some and "MCE + an xbox360" from others

The terms we use are backend server and frontend playback device. The frontends can be smaller PC's (or dedicated media devices), and the backend only need be one machine. You will fit more that enough storage on a modern motherboard. Most gigabyte boards come with 8 sata ports so there's 8TB just there.

I highly doubt that your requirements will be demanding enough to require SAS drives and cisco switches.

You really only need gigabit from the server to the switch, the rest can be 100MB as no single server (even watching HD), will consume more than 10MB/sec.

At any rate any new motherboard has gigabit ethernet on it. Cat6 is not required. Cat5e cable is sufficient for home gigabit networks.

In the end it comes down to how much you need to do simultaneously. So that's what you need to work out.

Plan out how many "frontends" might be active at any given time and what they'll be doing, then work backwards to work out the probable bandwidth required from the network and the drives, then spec the hardware. You might find a <$5000 solution is all you need as opposed to a >$20000.

Map out your house, all the rooms, how many tv's/monitors, how many stereos, etc etc. from that calculate how many network points, work out how much media you have (videos/audio and pictures). With all that written out you can determine:

1. How many frontends you need.
2. How many network points to install.
3. How much cable you need.
4. How much storage space you need.
5. How many tuners you need
6. What motherboard will support enough drives for the server.
7. Will the motherboard support enough tuners.
8. If you go raid cards do you have enough slots for the tuners.
etc etc

Everything you want to do can be done over ethernet.

After that you need to think about how you're going to keep it safe. Do you need redundancy in the data, in the server etc etc. You might want to use software raid 5, you may want to purchase hardware raid cards etc etc. You might not care if a drive fails as you have the original dvd's anyway etc etc.

You can buy rackmount cases that will fit standard atx motherboards. No need to go over the top and buy a server board.

You also need to decide what to use. I personally would recommend a Linux solution when you're planning a client/server rollout as you are. Linux excels at server functions and is more stable and efficient than windows. That is a personal choice for many but has been my experience. Whatever you do I would suggest buying hardware that is Linux and Windows compatible. You then have the choice to swap if you find one solution is not working for you.

You might want to keep an eye on a thread currently in progress where Duffy is doing something similar to what you're looking at using Linux. You can find it here.

It's a big project you're planning so the best thing you can do is plan it out with full specifications from start to finish and then break it into manageable parts, cabling, racking, servers, networking etc etc.

Cheers,

Arkay.

[Ikeee]

I'm looking at something similar to you, chaosphere

I'm after the NAS that holds the whole houses files and can be accessed at the same time by up to 5 computers (frontends) on a wired network.

I am starting to order parts for the NAS and i plan to use a Linux distro for the OS...
The mobo i chose has 6 sata ports which will be fine for me

After reading all this however i am confused..i am planning to be using RAID 5 config. but have no idea how to go about it with the mention of the software and hardware RAID options.


Is it really as easy as getting the server, connecting it to the network and then getting RAID set up (somehow)? or am i missing a massive bit :S

[arkay]

Ikeee,

With hardware raid all the drives are plugged into a dedicated card and the card presents the "array" to the OS. The striping and parity calculation is done on the card which gives a performance boost over a software solution.

If you do it in software you would use lvm under linux with the drives plugged into the 6 motherboard ports. The software would control the striping and the calculation of parity data, which would be calculated by the CPU on the motherboard.

Performance wise software raid is still fast enough for the vast majority of operations.

The other consideration is that if your hardware raid card dies and you can't buy an identical card there is a chance that you'll lose all your data.

With software on the other hand you could take your 6 drives and plug them into a completely different motherboard and the arrary would still be intact.

Hope that explains a little.

Cheers,

Arkay.

[Ikeee]

thanks for the fast reply

Don't really like the look of the hardware raid as its expensive..

If i used software raid would i need a better cpu?

[arkay]

Better than what? The Q9450 in your sig? No way. An old P3 would probably be quick enough for normal home use

Cheers,

Arkay.

[Ikeee]

I was going to build a whole new system..but that brings me to the idea
could i add another 1tb hdd to my current computer (in sig) and run some virtual program? would that work..Im sure it would function the same as if i bought a new server ?

if i was to buy a new system i was thinking it would look like this:

Corsair DDR2 1G PC5300 DDR2 RAM value select(single stick)
Corsair VX-550 ATX Power Supply 120mm fan PCI-E Graphics Card Connecto
Antec Three Hundred Tower Gaming Case- Black NO PSU
Gigabyte GA-MA74GM-S2H M/b - AMD 740G/SB700,DDR2 800
AMD Athlon™64 X2 4850e AM2 45w