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New user here. I've searched before creating this thread, but as usual my needs are too specific (I guess I'm too picky... lol).
So, here's the deal: I just got me a D945GCLF Intel board (you know, the Atom-based Mini-ITX one). After I'm done shutting up that screamer fan and hacking away at a standard PSU to make it fit a smaller custom case, I'd like to put it to use as a NAS.
However, I'm torn about storage and its management (hence the OS part of the problem), and I'd like some help.
As you probably know, the D945GCLF only has two SATA ports, plus a PCI expansion, and a 10/100 NIC. Also, dual PCI risers are not guaranteed to work with this board. This makes the total storage available to be 2x1TB, with a Gigabit card, or 6x1TB, with a 4-port PCI SATA controller (with VERY low transfer speeds). I only mention internal SATA storage because IDE drives are just too expensive these days, and USB adapters keep the drives spinning all the time - unless I hack them so they spin down at the same time the PSU shuts down, but that's difficult, to say the least)...
At fisrt, I'll probably de just fine with only 10/100 (not more than two simultaneous connections), but 10/100 probably will take a pounding with two or more HD streams at the same time, right?
So, with that in mind, and also considering that I'd like to have the following features, which OS would be best for me? WHS, W2K3, XP Pro, W2K8, Linux?
1. Something like WHS's approach on file duplication (not RAID-1, but still just as safe, and VERY space-efficient);
2. At least per-folder (I think I can go around the "per share" limitation of WHS) access control;
3. On-demand stand-by/power-up and per directed-packet WOL power-on.
I must say I'm a TOTAL Linux noob (and a Windows power user, so every time I look at Linux, I don't know where the hell to even start looking for stuff... ), so I'll need a VERY easilly installable distro, if that's the best way.
Some HDD configurations come to mind:
nxSATA (easiest and cheapest for Windows-based configurations);
1xUSB + nxSATA (for Linux, and even with the standard 3MB/s read/write performance figures on cheap sticks, I'd probably still be able to get sub-10'' load times...)
1xIDE+nxSATA (exceptionally, for Windows-based configurations, though it will be tough to find something like a non-noisy ~160GB IDE drive).
Also, and I almost forgot to mention, PCI risers are few, far between and VERY expensive in Portugal. Same thing for 4xSATA PCI controllers
I used to run WHS, and then Ubuntu but i like server 2003 much better.
Since it sounds like space is a bit of a premium, maybe look at buying a Compact Flash to IDE converter off Ebay, and use a ~2GB compact Flash card for the OS to run off, and that saves your SATA drives holding the OS...
obviously the best situation would be to get a PCI raiser, SATA Card and Gigabit Network Card again, maybe look at ebay for a cheap raiser card and see if it works? if not, just ebay it again
__________________
Dilithium -> A64 X2 4850, ECS 8200A, 2x1024Mb Crucial, Onboard GF8200, 1x80Gb Seagate SATA, 2x250Gb Seagate SATA II in Stripe, Pioneer 212BK, ThermalTake Tenor, HDA X-Plosion, DVICO Dual Tuner, Acer 32" 720p LCD
Trilithium -> A64 X2 4850e, ABIT Nforce Mobo, 2x2GB DDR2-800 Patriot, Sapphire HD2400XT, 160GB Samsung SATA, Pioneer K06 DVD Burner, Hiper Slimline Chassis w/Slimline CPU Cooler, Digital Now Tiny Twin Tuner, Sound Blaster USB, Hisence 42" 1080p LCD TV :):):)
The install is smooth as anything you will get from a Linux distribution, and all setup for a NAS system.
As per pantonious has said, a good option is to install the OS to a compact flash, and use the storage devices for that - storage. I didnt go that route as OpenFiler is pretty light weight anyways as it is custom built for being a NAS.
I run OpenFiler here, and its very slick - even when it comes to expading storage when you run out of your original disk space.
OpenFiler whilst totally free to use, it is based around rPath Linux appliances - which in itself is a company spun out from Red Hat as the developers around some funky features didnt like the way things were heading thus jumped ship to form rPath (which btw Red Hat now sees as competition and has their own rPath like system coming out). This being said, the OS behind OpenFiler is certainly enterprise grade. The fact that you can download and use for zero - or buy it - or buy official support kind of gives me a warm fuzzy feeling that I can have a contract / SLA around any serious issue rather than poking around with source and fixing it myself.
FreeNAS is BSD based (and no there is nothing wrong with that) and is rock solid as well. There is no option to buy any support - so if something goes totally screwed with a serious issue then you could be out on your own. The last time I tried FreeNAS was around late 2006 when I was in the US.
Looking at both the OS's however, I would say that if you were to have an issue - you would probably have more of a chance to get some sort of google search / response for a Linux system than a BSD system - whilst most answers would probably apply to both if it was say a samba or something similar, I think having a little more Linux community out there would be better (tho I could be totally way off on this - as I dont use BSD myself on a regular or even frequent basis - very infrequent at best).
Given that also OpenFiler provides a VM image to play / test / work with, it allows you to easilly get used to things before putting it into production.
Feature for feature they are pretty much the same from what I can gather - so i guess it really comes down to are you a Linux or a BSD person, and if you wanted to, would you want to have paid support for your data.
The following Member(s) said "Thank You!" to itr2401 for this information:
First of all, sorry for the delay. This past week has been utterly chaotic for me, I barely managed to get some time to breathe...
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantonious
Since it sounds like space is a bit of a premium, maybe look at buying a Compact Flash to IDE converter off Ebay, and use a ~2GB compact Flash card for the OS to run off, and that saves your SATA drives holding the OS...
obviously the best situation would be to get a PCI raiser, SATA Card and Gigabit Network Card again, maybe look at ebay for a cheap raiser card and see if it works? if not, just ebay it again
Yes, space is a bit at a premium. However, eBay doesn't exist in Portugal (I only have access to the international sites, with few international sellers and HUGE mailing fees), and access to interesting stuff (like CF-to-IDE adapters, PicoPSUs and riser cards) is nearly impossible (a 120W PicoPSU + power brick is like $176 USD , plus posting and packaging; a PCI riser is about $36 USD, plus p&p...).
I'll try to get my hands on a PCI riser, though the only one I know it's available here comes from Mini-ITX.com (a portuguese store gets them from the UK website), and mini-itx.com clearly says the risers are only compatible with VIA-based boards...
I have had a little contact with FreeNAS (the only OS I ever knew capable of capping a 10/100 connection, and I mean 99% average transfer rates, with a measly PentiumPro 180 and a 6GB HDD...), and it seems very interesting. I've also seen RAID1 capabilities, which I'll most likely need, and it seems easy enough to play with.
OpenFiler does seem a very complete OS, but I got scared just seeing the volume management options, and how many steps you have to go through to get a RAID volume going... Unless someone tells me I've seen it very wrong, or that those extra steps mean OpenFiler has some sort of WHS-like storage capabilities, FreeNAS seems a better option for my non-*nix self... hehe
Quote:
Originally Posted by itr2401
Feature for feature they are pretty much the same from what I can gather - so i guess it really comes down to are you a Linux or a BSD person, and if you wanted to, would you want to have paid support for your data.
Please don't kill me on site, but I really thought BSD was just a Linux variant, like Debian... Just to proove how much of a n00b I am...
As I said, FreeNAS seems more "n00b-friendly", so I'll probably go that route, if Windows reveals itself not to be a viable option.
In the meanwhile, I did manage to get my hands on a 2GB DDR2-667 Kingston ValueRAM stick (CL5, not bad), which is running along just fine in the board.
Also, I'm testing W2K8 with a 160GB PATA drive I also got (couldn't resist, plus it was cheap... What impressed me most was the utter absense of seek sounds - though it does hum at 7200RPM, and it clicks and hums loudly when powering up - PATA drives really did come a long way since my last 80GB 2005 PATA drive...). After what seemed like a BIOS incompatibility with the drive (or the RAM, or something...) and a very messy BIOS update, it now seems to be working fine.
Install took about 15 minutes, which I think is rather quick (Vista usually takes 20'+ on my E6400 Dual-channel 2GB DDR2-800 Samsung 321KJ machine). First impressions on a fresh install (only mobo, sound and VGA drivers installed) point to a somewhat snappy machine. Not blazing fast, and asking it for three different windows at the same time is asking for a wait period, but idle CPU loads are less than 5% (usually like 1%...).
I'll probably also try W2K3 and WHS, just to see how they feel and behave. However, W2K8 apparently is nothing like it's bloated elephant brother... If that turns out to be true, I might be sold on this one, and stick to IDE+software RAID1 for the SATA ports...
Now to get myself a Zalman NB Heatsink and a cheap 200W+ PSU to hack (no fan, I only want to use a 12cm low-speed - probably from Noiseblocker - system-wide fan... hehehe), since the NB fan on this mobo is a HUGE screamer, and my supposedly silent 450W 12cm-fan OEM PSU manages to outloud it by a significant margin...
I'll keep you guys posted on news. And thanks again for your help!
How did it go setting up your Atom to be fanless or as fanless as possible? I'm considering the new Atom 330 for a home server or 2nd media centre ... but was wondering about the sound from the spec fan ...
No disrespect meant (especially because I'm from a non English-speaking country), but I just love that way about how you guys salute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanz
How did it go setting up your Atom to be fanless or as fanless as possible? I'm considering the new Atom 330 for a home server or 2nd media centre ... but was wondering about the sound from the spec fan ...
Well, the D945GCLF has a MAJOR design flaw: the NB fan just utterly SCREAMS at 6000rpm ALL THE TIME. I mean, it's so loud I can't barely hear myself think...
Lucky me (and every other D945GCLF owner who isn't affraid of using its fingers), I was able to shut it up somewhat just by moving the fan connector to the "System" fan header, which has PWM (as opposed to the CPU one... go figure... and why in hell should a NB fan be connected to the CPU fan header?). That alone gets you the ability to control the fan speed through the BIOS, and at 50% it becomes barely audible.
That was my first step. The next one will be to change the NB heatsink to something beefier and without a fan. Zalman has a great blue fanless heatsink (not the cubic one, that's only for motherboards with holes) which I have already ordered, but that's taking an insane amount of time.
After I replace the heatsink, I'll probably switch to a single nice low-noise fan. Noiseblocker is my favourite: dirt cheap (like €8 for the most expensive "value" ones), usually under 20dBa (some even below 17dBa) and they move buckloads of air (around 72m3/hour for the most powerfull ones, if memory serves me right).
At the same time, I'd like to hack away at a regular PSU (the PicoPSUs are just too expensive for me), keep only the internals, and make sure the single system fan can move air across it. Oh, I'm talking "custom-made case", btw...
Unfortunately, that's on hold for now. First because of the heatsink, then because I haven't been able to get hold of a small PSU (sub-300W), and lastly because of the truck that arrived at my door a couple of weeks ago delivering like several tons of work to do... I've been taking work home for a couple of weeks now, and there's no end in sight for at least a month
If you need anything else, feel free to ask. In the meanwhile, I'll try to keep you guys updated, ok?
Looking forward to hearing about your progress. Personally I'm starting to wonder if a few, small, quiet, low power boxes around the house doing dedicated tasks are a better bet than the huge, black Silverstone monolith I have in my living room now . Will be great to hear how people find these low cost Atoms dealing with HD, et. al ... the writeups online seem pretty promising ...
Will do. Not sure when, but I'll get there. Eventually... lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by evanz
Personally I'm starting to wonder if a few, small, quiet, low power boxes around the house doing dedicated tasks are a better bet than the huge, black Silverstone monolith I have in my living room now . Will be great to hear how people find these low cost Atoms dealing with HD, et. al ... the writeups online seem pretty promising ...
Well, that really depends on what you want to achieve, and how much power each box draws...
Don't forget a simple Atom system, right now (unless you get one of those impressively expensive industrial boards with the N270+945GSE+ICH7M combo) you're limited to rather high-power parts (typical Atom system power is around 40W). Multiple dedicated Atom boxes, right now, to me seems like a bad idea, because of the insanely high power draw figures. You would be better off with something like an ASRock NF7+Sempron combo, or the new Athlon 2000+, with very interesting power figures (and lots more expansion), around 15-20W with 2.5'' HDD, PicoPSU and high-efficiency power brick. And you also need to consider what extra functions you need to add. I personally prefer a router/NAS/WSUS/Torrent server over a multi-system approach. Many of these functions can be handled by the same machine without problems.
Also, don't forget the extra costs that come along with extra systems, namely the extra power draw (and buying costs) from the added network gear, especially if you're dealing with Gigabit Ethernet.
As for HD content, and I've already said this somewhere else, the Atom platform IS NOT MADE TO HANDLE HD content. MPEG2 is handled by the IGP, but that's it. 720p may run, but with a rather high CPU usage. 1080p is only available with the Atom 330, again with high CPU usage. Please do check the review over at Tom's Hardware about the Atom boards.
For HD content, please go to the Canmore platform, or (personally my favourite) a 780G+X2 4050e combo. Or an E2280 (C2Ds don't really like sub-2GHz speeds), el-cheapo mATX board and an HD3450/4550.
), so I'll need a VERY easilly installable distro, if that's the best way.
, plus posting and packaging; a PCI riser is about $36 USD, plus p&p...).
