Proposed Media Server

[Raptor]

Hey All

I haven't build anything for a while and my fingers are starting to get a bit restless, so i'm contemplating building a media server to serve both my desktop and MCE rigs. I need some advise on what i'm looking at especially in regards to some of the motherboards specs and raid setups.

So to get the ball rolling this is what i'm looking at:

MB: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3R LGA775 P4 P965 BOARD
PSU: CORSAIR 620W MODULAR PSU
CPU: INTEL PENTIUM 3.00Ghz
RAM: 2048MB CORSAIR VALUE SELECT TWIN PACK PC-4200 240-PIN DDR2
RAID CARD: SPEED DRAGON SATA II RAID CONTROLLER
OS: WINDOWS 2003
CASE: ?????

Now for the reasons behind the selections:

MB: I've always used Gigabyte and never had any dramas, so why change brands? This board in particular because it was the cheapest in the range with 8 SATA points which i'm after for Raid. More on that later.
PSU: I'm actually buying a CORE2 DUO E6550 2.33GHZ but will be putting that into my desktop pc and the existing desktop chip will be going into the server.
CPU: Upon recommendation from TiggerK in this Sticky and i like the fact it has the modular cabling, keep it neat and tidy.
RAM: It's Corsair and not expensive.
RAID CARD: Need a 4 port SATA II.
OS: I have a "spare" copy. I have read up a bit on WHS and i haven't totally written it off but i really don't like the idea of it constantly balancing the drives.
CASE: I have a space in the cupboard under the kitchen sink that has a bit of room, and conveniently a power point as well, but it is really only big enough for a MIDI case. I really would like a full sized tower so i've got a bit of room for expandability but .....yeah, i have some decisions to make with that one. Available space is 470H x 230W x 500L. I can go higher and wider but not longer. Any suggestions are welcome keeping in mind i'm looking at 13 HDD's and a CD ROM.

It will be a "headless" server so, i'll just use my desktop VC and monitor until i get it set up and from then any adjustments will be made via Remote Desktop.

I've got 4 x 320Gb Seagates to get me going on storage. From what i have read on this forum, and elsewhere on the net, Raid 5 seems to be the go. I also plan to buy 1Tb Seagate drives when they become readily available and affordable on the market.

So this is where the questions start:
First up, I know absolutely bugger all about setting up Raid. So, is it possible to have separate Raid arrays set up on the one pc? And does it matter if one is via hardware and one via software?
As i said earlier the MB has 8 x SATA points. 6 are orange and 2 are purple. Is there any difference between the two? Assume i had 8 identical drives, could i use all 8 of these SATA points in a Raid 5 array?

Ideally what i would like to do is setup the OS drive on an 250Gb PATA drive. Then set up the 4 x 320Gb's using the RC in Raid 5 then when i've collected at least 3 x 1TB drives set them up in Raid 5 using the SATA points on the MB then just keep adding 1TB drives to that array as i go. Would that be possible?

Any advice, do's and/or don'ts with these specs would be great and much appreciated.

[vlad]

1. Don't build software RAID's They are a poor man's choice and will work like it.
2. There are hardware RAID controllers (have CPU and memory on-board to calculate parity) and there are hardware-assisted RAID controllers (all they have is a XOR logic engine but using you computer CPU and memory)
Here is an example of hardware assisted RAID controller:
http://www.techbuy.com.au/p/63964/HA...tRAID_2300.asp

And here is an example of hardware RAID controller:
http://www.techbuy.com.au/p/54188/HA...se/default.asp

You can see the difference - price

IMHO, hardware assisted raid is what you are looking for.
3. Don't get PCI RAID adapters. PCI bus has serious bandwidth limitations. Go with PCI-e.

[andrewpc]

Hey Raptor,

I have just finished doing exactly what you are planning. I wanted some shared, redundant storage for my two pcs (one media centre, one all purpose desktop) and my laptop. The end goal was to have nothing on the local machines except the OS and installed programs.

I had beta-tested WHS during the last 6 months or so, and felt like it was the right solution for me. Right when it was released, and it got to crunch time (read:$$$), I kinda decided I had better check out the other options available to me. My alternatives, were, a base consumer OS install, eg XP or Vista with shared drives, Server 2003 R2, a linux variant (eg Ubuntu Server), or possibly one of the NAS specific distributions like FreeNAS.

The thing that I really liked about WHS, was that there was an abstraction between the shares and the physical storage. So in effect, it doesnt matter how many hard drives you have in your server and what sizes they are, to the end user, all I saw was the same shares. Adding more drives is also ridiculously easy and doesnt require any configuration from me to move folders around, re-create shares etc, its all seamless...So looking for this kinda thing from XP or Vista, I kinda came up a bit short. Same for 2003. While it is immensely more powerful, I had to still spend more time managing my shares and data, as I expanded my storage. Now I dont know too much about all of the Linux intricacies, but I did read about a thing called LVM on linux, which apparently lets you do a similar thing, but just reading about it was scary enough....FreeNAS, I really like the idea of it, but it has been built to serve one purpose only, and I kinda felt that eventually I might want to do a few other things with my server, eg run a java web app server etc.....So Ill stop ranting now, and say that I ended up puchasing WHS. Im not too fussed on the whole backup thing, which seems to work well, but as all my 'important' data resides on the server, it wasnt a huge issue, although it is handy to be able to restore a full OS with all apps good to go. I also run Vista 64 bit on my primary desktop, and there is no connector client available yet for automated backup (but with a little trickery, while we wait for the 64 bit version, the 32bit one can be installed for admin purposes). Remote access is good, but prob nothing you couldnt get with a third party install, although I like the ease of setup and use of the free domain name.

The final thing that I really like is that not all shares need to be duplicated. In a raid system, all data is effectively redundant, whether you have a Raid5 or mirroring setup. The good thing about WHS is that I can turn on duplication for my music and documents folders, which always ensures that I have them stored on at least two drives, but I can disable duplication for my videos folder, which while they are nice, I wouldnt care too much if I lost them...


My thoughts:

WHS

Pro:
Completely simple to add/remove storage.
Transparent shares to the end user
Good Backup ability (only for 32 bit windows clients)
Very easy to run and configure headlessly, via built in client software
Free homeserver.com domain name for remote access
Configurable share-level duplication

Cons:
Price - around $250 Aus
No 64 bit client yet
Somewhat proprietary filesystem (although still NTFS underneath and drives can be read under other versions of windows, and drives always contain whole files)


My hardware:

Athlon 3800+ X2 (w/arctic cooling silent fan)
DFI Infinity NF4 Ultra (w/Thermalright fanless northbridge cooler)
1GB OCZ Gold RAM
2 x 250GB Samsung HDD
1 x 200GB Seagate HDD
1 x 60GB Seagate HDD
Coolermaster Stacker case, space for 12+ drives
Nvidia Quadro 280NVS (was spare)


Next up for me is probably a pair of 500GB drives, to really push up the storage.

This thing is as quite as a mouse, which is really good considering its on all the time, and has been very reliable so far.

Dont be too concerned about the stuff you read about drives always being 'balanced'. In the final release this has been reduced and is far quicker. Secondly, there was a post on the Home Server forum, that says, that the 'Balancing Storage' message is shown when the server is doing all kinds of different things:

- Balancing Storage

- Duplicating Shared Folder Data

- Analyzing the Health of the Home Server Hard Drives

- Migrating Home Server Backup Database files to a hard drive with adequate space

- Creating Volume Shadow Copy Snapshots for your shared folders around

Anyway, after the initial install and copy, it definitely appears to occur a lot less.

Hope this helps, any questions, let me know.

Andrew

[Raptor]

Hi Vlad

Kinda figured you'd be on to this with the "go hardware, not software" road. Which is fair enough, each to their own, but i now have more questions. You've recommended that i should go for the hardware "assisted" card instead of the card that does all the work itself. Am i right in assuming you've picked that card because it is a dedicated server and that's what the CPU and RAM should be doing? It seems like a dumb question when i re-read it but that choice of card is a complete reversal of what i am used to, eg. a Video Card, you buy a dedicated video card to release the workload from the mainboard CPU and RAM.

After reading your post i went looking at raid cards like the Highpoint you recommended and it seems an 8 ch (or more) PCI E x1 card is a pretty rare item. I couldn't find one. The ones that i saw were PCI E x4 or x8. Is there much difference between the X1 and X4 slots? Anyway, i went looking for Gigabyte mb's that had both x1 and x4 slots and/ or mb's that had more then on x4 slot but once again ran into walls.

Any suggestions? If i go down the hardware road i would have no dramas changing my choice of mb to suit, providing the board is reliable and the price is right.


Hi andrewpc

Good to hear you're up and running. Nice post! You're info on the balancing "issue" might be what tips me over to WHS. After all it would be easier if i can just whack in another HDD willy nilly. Have you got you're HDD's all hooked into the mb or do you have/ intend to buy a raid controller? Also i thought i read somewhere that WHS only backs up other Vista Ultimate machines on the network? In other words if you're running Home Premium then WHS will not back up that machine. Anyone confirm or deny that please?


I would still like the original questions (eg can two software arrays be setup side by side, can one be hardware and one software, and the orange and purple difference if any) to be answered please, just for knowledge sake.

[vlad]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Am i right in assuming you've picked that card because it is a dedicated server and that's what the CPU and RAM should be doing? It seems like a dumb question when i re-read it but that choice of card is a complete reversal of what i am used to, eg. a Video Card, you buy a dedicated video card to release the workload from the mainboard CPU and RAM.

Yes, if you have a dedicated server, then you can spare some CPU for hardware assisted RAID. My situation is different where I have a general purpose PC/Game PC/Server all in one. Therefore I am using this card:
http://www.techbuy.com.au/p/54188/HA...se/default.asp

Originally Posted by Raptor

After reading your post i went looking at raid cards like the Highpoint you recommended and it seems an 8 ch (or more) PCI E x1 card is a pretty rare item. I couldn't find one. The ones that i saw were PCI E x4 or x8. Is there much difference between the X1 and X4 slots? Anyway, i went looking for Gigabyte mb's that had both x1 and x4 slots and/ or mb's that had more then on x4 slot but once again ran into walls.
Any suggestions? If i go down the hardware road i would have no dramas changing my choice of mb to suit, providing the board is reliable and the price is right.

My current MB (because of need of PCI-ex4 slot) is ASUS 5PKC
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...94&modelmenu=1
Black PCIe slot is actually x4, but looks like x16
The more channels you have the more bandwidth you need. x1 is OK for 4 channels but not for 8. Therefore you need x4 or even x8.
Lots of mobo manufactures are doing a second x16 slot, but it is not for SLI but for x4 or x8 cards. You need to read specifications.
Don't limit yourself to one MB manufacturer. Just find what you want, layout and function wise. At the end they all will work, and you are not building superchared and overclocked rig.

[andrewpc]

No, I think you might be confusing a slightly different issue, re. the backup. WHS can backup any versions of vista or XP (32 bit at the moment).

The issue you are referring to is remote desktop access. The web console that comes with WHS has two functions. One is remote file upload/download. The other is remote desktop access to any pcs on your network. Unfortunately remote desktop is only included in Vista Business and Ultimate and XP Pro. So in order to use this functionality, you need one of these operating systems. Backup works across all versions.

Andrew

[Raptor]

Thanks again guys. More food for thought.

[andrewpc]

No probs, hope it works out for you. Also, from your previous post. I currently have two PATA and two SATA drives hooked up to the motherboard. I have two SATA ports left. I probably wouldnt get RAID due to the WHS duplication ability, but probably just another PCI/PCI-E -> SATA card.

Andrew

[TiggerK]

Hi all,

the 6 orange and 2 purple will be different RAID controllers, so you can't do a hardware RAID across all 8 ports. You can mix hardware and software RAID.

I am using 2 software RAID 5's - 8 drives each - 8 via onboard IDE and SATA mixed, and 8 via 2 x Highpoint 454 PCI cards (not using slaves - all 8 drives set as master - works better using these cards as IDE, not as RAID), and a MB based hardware RAID 1 for the O/S. System is a P4 3GHz, 1GB RAM, Windows 2003 server, all perfect, no performance issues and I'm happy that I didn't pay over a thousand dollars for a couple of hardware RAID cards that I just don't need.

N'uff said.

Cheers
TiggerK

[Raptor]

Hi TiggerK

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I figured those sata ports would be different colours for one reason or another.