XBox 360 and 1080/50i or 720/50p

[Stephen_N]

Hi there

New poster from the UK - but thought I'd share experiences and seek advice from fellow 50Hz-ers in Australia.

I've been running MCE for 2 years in SD - initially using the VGA -> RGB SCART + Powerstrip + Radeon 1024x576/50i interlaced SD output from my XP MCE box. Works well.

However a year ago I added an XBox 360 as a Media Center Extender - again 576/50i SD using an RGB SCART cable - and again it worked well.

Recently I upgraded to a Sony Bravia 40W2000 HDTV, and the XBox HD-DVD drive - which has been great. HOWEVER - now I'm using either VGA or Component cables at 1080p, 1080i or 720p - and the 50/60Hz issue has reared its ugly head...

It seems that the following is the case :

Via VGA connection 1080/60p is the only supported 1080p frame rate, and the output is fixed at this. Gaming is great and HD-DVD replay is also fine - as these are 1080/24p output at 1080/60p with 3:2 frame repition (so you get 3:2 judder - but that it expected). When I play SD DVDs they are scaled to 1080p but output at 60Hz not 50Hz, so I get motion judder with 50Hz DVDs. When I use MCX (Media Center Extender) functionality, this too is output at 60Hz, so when I watch 50Hz Live TV and Recorded TV it is output at 60Hz, again with 10Hz judder.


Via Component HD conection, 1080/60i and 1080/50i are supported as they are both checked when you select this resolution. HD-DVD replay is again fine, as it is output 1080/60i with 3:2 pulldown, gaming is also OK at 60Hz. When 50Hz DVDs are replayed they are output at 576/50p (as indicated on-screen by my TV - this is a licensing limitation as DVD licensed players can't output 1080 or 720 upconverted DVDs via Component, just HDMI/DVI+HDCP or VGA) and there is no motion judder, so in this area there is an improvement over VGA 1080/60p. However in MCX, again Live TV and Recorded TV is displayed in 1080/60i not 1080/50i - even though the XBox has confirmed 1080/50i compatibility at set-up - so you get 10Hz judder.


So it seems the options at the moment are :

VGA 1080/60p - Great HD-DVD and Great Gaming, Poor SD-DVD and Poor MCX
Component 1080i - Good HD-DVD and Good gaming, Good SD-DVD and Poor MCX
RGB SCART - SD-only HD-DVD and SD-only gaming, Good SD-DVD and Good MCX

It looks as if the HD support for MCX is designed only to work well in 60Hz territories, as if there was a view that no 50Hz territories would go HD?

In Europe our "HD Ready" licensing scheme means all HD Ready displays will accept 1080i and 720p at both 50 and 60Hz - but this doesn't mean that support for 60Hz is favoured. For 50Hz SD and HD broadcast display 1080/50i or 720/50p is still best...

Has anyone in Aus got HD or SD 50Hz broadcasts output from an XBox in MCX mode at 1080/50i or 720/50p - or is everyone stuck at 60Hz - which for me, frankly, is unwatchable. (Our BBC News 24 channel has a ticker along the bottom of the screen, which at 60Hz judders really badly)

One thing that might be of note - when I use my SD RGB SCART connection - and fire up MCX on the 360 - there is a noticable frame rate jump, as if the XBox is forcing the box into 576/50i as MCX is fired up. It is a pity there can't be a Dashboard option for 50/60Hz SPECIFICALLY for the MCX (after all people may want to stay 60Hz for gaming and HD-DVD replay) - or even MCX to be intelligent and play 50Hz material at 50Hz and change frame rate when fed 60Hz stuff?

[logifuse]

This is how it is:

1080i with XBOX 360

It's frustrating as all hell!

Justin

[anything]

its the price you pay for not living in america, jeez it gives me the ****s.

[Stephen_N]

Thanks - feared that was the case. Had a call back from Microsoft technical support who didn't really seem to quite "get" the issue, and said they hadn't heard of it before...

In Europe we have "HD Ready" - meaning all of our HD sets sold with this logo can cope with 50 and 60Hz signals at both SD, SD progressive and HD resolutions (i.e. 480i/p @ 60Hz, 576i/p @ 50Hz, 1080i @ 50 & 60Hz, 720p @ 50 & 60Hz, and optionally some displays now accept 1080p @ 50 & 60Hz and a few 1080p @ 24Hz)

So in a way we are better than you guys in Aus who have 1080/50i only displays (only one JVC CRT set sold in the UK was 1080/50i only I believe) - but then you have had HD CRTs that are worth watching, whereas we just had JVC and Samsung models (which weren't really), and now have only LCD and Plasma HD displays to chose from.

Two options would seem to be :

In the Dashboard have a system for selecting all the frame rates and resolutions your set-up will display, and equally those it won't. Then when you are in MCX mode - or DVD mode - and you get 50Hz video to display, you switch outputs to 50Hz, and when you get 60Hz you switch to 60Hz. This may mean re-rendering the menus and stuff if you flip from 480 to 576, but within 1080i/p or 720p you should be fine.

This would mean 24p HD-DVDs, and 60i DVDs, replayed at 60p/60i, 25p/50i HD-DVDs (when they appear) and 50i DVDs replayed at 50p/50i, and MCX streaming worked well.

Alternatively, a cruder option would be to have a separate dashboard setting for Media Center Extender resolution and frame rate, allowing you to select 50Hz for just MCX?

Of course - this requires Microsoft to realise there is an issue - and decide us 50Hz-ers are important enough to them to solve it...